DROPPED Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul (by Shurah)

[EssArrBee]

I'm pretty sure I got permission for the ELE patch way back when this mod came out, but the CRF patch has a lot of unique records, so I always ask when that is the case. 

[shurah]

Tech, it's not the responsibility of those mod authors to make patches either.  They are under no obligation to do so and have probably already put hundreds, if not thousands, of hours into their respective mods.  Let's not dismiss the significant amount of effort that those authors have already contributed to their mods for the sake of users.  It's not always possible for a mod author to realize their vision and intention for a mod while also maintaining compatibility with other mods, or sometimes it's just simply not a priority for them.  That is their right and prerogative.  They have no responsibility to ensure their mods are inherently compatible with other mods.   If two mods are not compatible with one another, then users must simply decide which one to use. 

 

It's true and the lack of good tutorials as well as the predominance of bad tutorials doesn't help the newcomers to acquire the good modding practices right at the start.

Thank you for your cheering Neovalen and Krytopyr.

 

 

It seems that the patches to some of those mods aren't even patches. They are more like different versions of your mod altogether. I don't think that amount of time is required by you after all the work that already goes into making a mod like yours.

The patch for CRF is more an addon than a compatibility patch and TES5edit isn't suited to display navmesh entries.

You have my permission to incorpore it in your STEP patch, but keep in mind that if the STEP patch already edit the "Navmesh Nagivation Info"Map" folder, you 'll have to update the information stored in it, by using the CK.

 

By the way, the latest informations about the mod's development can be found on my Flickr or on my youtube channel.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/128143940@N04/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEFdan-sAeAgM-4VUutkHrQ

Edited November 12, 2015 by shurah

[hazelwolf]

shurah, on 12 Nov 2015 - 2:59 PM, said:

 

By the way, the latest informations about the mod's development can be found on my Flickr or on my youtube channel.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/128143940@N04/

https://www.youtube.com/dashboard?o=U

That youtube link appears to be broken. It just links me to my own dashboard. The stuff in the Flickr album sound interesting, though. The "Immersive Animals" part :)

[TechAngel85]

Looking at the flickr photos, can we assume that you're also working on bettering the animal behaviors?

[JawZ]

Having them be a real wolf pack, now that ould be something, instead of individuals in a group.

[christopherleegallant]

it'll be interesting to see how your immersive animals compares to skytest. looking forward to it

[shurah]

That youtube link appears to be broken. It just links me to my own dashboard. The stuff in the Flickr album sound interesting, though. The "Immersive Animals" part :)

 

Yeah wrong link for the youtube channel.

 

Looking at the flickr photos, can we assume that you're also working on bettering the animal behaviors?

Yes, but due to the lack of animations, I'm much more limited than with human NPC: only bears have a sleep animation for example.

A quick preview :

The mudcrabs will attack you only if you are in range, so you'll have to be more careful when crossing a river (as they hide themselves quite often)

The slaughter fishes won't attack the mudcrabs anymore (because they have no chance to win).

Wolves and deers in the same area will regroup and will be much more mobiles (to improve encounters diversity).

Deers, foxes and hares will be more mobiles and more reactives (detection range improved and sprint ability increased)

Wolves, bears, sabre cats will be hostile each other (no more alliance against the player).

Improved combat style for wolves, bears, sabre cats.

Some bug fixes, like the famous mammoth falling from the sky.

Edited November 12, 2015 by shurah

[TechAngel85]

Awesome! Sounds like an eventual competitor with SkyTEST (which I've never used). Looking forward to the next release!

[Neovalen]

Could the lack of creature anims be helped by FNIS Creature Pack?

[Darth_mathias]

Yeah wrong link for the youtube channel.

 

Yes, but due to the lack of animations, I'm much more limited than with human NPC: only bears have a sleep animation for example.

A quick preview :

The mudcrabs will attack you only if you are in range, so you'll have to be more careful when crossing a river (as they hide themselves quite often)

The slaughter fishes won't attack the mudcrabs anymore (because they have no chance to win).

Wolves and deers in the same area will regroup and will be much more mobiles (to improve encounters diversity).

Deers, foxes and hares will be more mobiles and more reactives (detection range improved and sprint ability increased)

Wolves, bears, sabre cats will be hostile each other (no more alliance against the player).

Improved combat style for wolves, bears, sabre cats.

Some bug fixes, like the famous mammoth falling from the sky.

interest maybe this will replace Skytest (which i current have in my load order) eventually

[hazelwolf]

Do you have an estimated release date, Shurah?

[oqhansoloqo]

While modifying the animal behavior and combat style, you might want to review a mod called Animal Tweaks too for ideas.

[nappilydeestruction]

While modifying the animal behavior and combat style, you might want to review a mod called Animal Tweaks too for ideas.

I was gonna say this also One Nature i believe does this, i might be wrong though...

[Nebulous112]

Just an FYI, please see this thread at the AFK Mods forum.

 

It looks like with installation of any new mods that add NPCs (or any updates to existing mods that add NPCs), you must create a new game to take advantage of the "Go Home" functionality of Immersive Citizens for those new NPCs. This only occurs on an existing save that already has Immersive Citizens installed.

 

For the lazy, I've posted the transcript below:

 

 

 

Rolaids: https://wiki.step-project.com/Changelog/2.2.9.2

 

Immersive Citizens-AI Overhaul - ADDED to Core (06 November) - Replaces Run For Your Lives and When Vampires Attack. Replaces the Wet and Cold feature, "Go Home". This feature should be disabled within the Wet & Cold MCM."

Excuse, but why they say this? Is true I can remove mods and AI mod will fix everything?

 

Arthmoor: [...]

 

@Rolaids: Not exactly. Here's why:

 

If you install Immersive Citizens at the start of your game with all the mods you ever plan to run, you can probably skip the need for RFYL and WVA. The same is true if IC is installed later and you never intend to use any newer mods after that.

 

The big thing is this. If you decide you want some mods that add more NPCs to the game and IC is already installed then it can't do anything for those additional NPCs as it has no scripts and cannot react to the situation on demand. Any NPC added to the game after IC will not gain the protection from it. Therefore you'd still need to install RFYL and/or WVA to deal with the problem.

 

[...] IC is not a replacement for RFYL and WVA. Their guide is assuming way too much about how all 3 of those mods work.

 

Nebulous112: Arthmoor, to clarify: does this issue you describe with Immersive Citizens only occur when adding new mods (with new NPCs) to an existing save?

 

Or any mods installed or updated (with new NPCs) after Immersive Citizens was installed, even on a brand new game? I.E. Mods installed after Immersive Citizens in the "installation order" for a new game.

 

[...]

 

Arthmoor: It would occur with any additional NPCs added to the game through mods after ICAO had been installed.

 

If you have not yet actually started the game, it won't matter. This only applies if you've been running an existing save, even for a moment, and then decide to add more mods and continue on with the same save.

 

Nebulous112: [...]

 

Would updating new versions of affected existing mods (originally installed before a new game) cause the same issue?

 

Arthmoor: Only if those updates happen to include more NPCs than they started with.

 

This is why an "on demand" solution is preferable. The only drawback is that it requires scripts and that's not something Shurah wanted in his mod.

 

I'm not sure if you guys feel this requires a warning in the Immersive Citizens wiki page or not. However, this is good info to know. Especially if Cutting Room Floor or other mods get updates that add new NPCs.

 

Anyway, I am planning on updating to 2.2.9.2 over the weekend, so I am definitely stoked to try out Immersive Citizens. It does look phenomenal. :-)

 

Edit: (clarity)

Edited November 27, 2015 by Nebulous112

[shurah]

Awesome! Sounds like an eventual competitor with SkyTEST (which I've never used). Looking forward to the next release!

I used SkyTEST (lite), but wasn't happy with it, hence the developping on this mod, it's already better than Skytest

 

Could the lack of creature anims be helped by FNIS Creature Pack?

May be, I don't know to be honest, currently, I have no skills in animation, but adding a sleep animation to all the animals would be without a doubt a great improvement.

 

Do you have an estimated release date, Shurah?

No, as I'm doing mainly an experimental work, I can't give any estimate date. Besides, I'm more motivate to release my enemy AI overhaul and my follower AI overhaul.

 

While modifying the animal behavior and combat style, you might want to review a mod called Animal Tweaks too for ideas.

Thanks for the suggestion, I already know this mod, but like all the combat overhaul currently available, this mod does not overhaul the AI used in combat, it does only some combat style tweaks and adds new perk to animals. Currently, Immersive Citizens, is the only mod which overhauls the AI used in combat, but it only applies to Skyrim's citizens. My enemy AI overhaul will take care of the other NPCs, especially the mages, the archers and dragons.

 

 

Just an FYI, please see this thread at the AFK Mods forum.

 

It looks like with installation of any new mods that add NPCs (or any updates to existing mods that add NPCs), you must create a new game to take advantage of the "Go Home" functionality of Immersive Citizens for those new NPCs. This only occurs on an existing save that already has Immersive Citizens installed.

 

For the lazy, I've posted the transcript below:

 

 

 

Rolaids: https://wiki.step-project.com/Changelog/2.2.9.2

 

 

Excuse, but why they say this? Is true I can remove mods and AI mod will fix everything?

 

Arthmoor: [...]

 

@Rolaids: Not exactly. Here's why:

 

If you install Immersive Citizens at the start of your game with all the mods you ever plan to run, you can probably skip the need for RFYL and WVA. The same is true if IC is installed later and you never intend to use any newer mods after that.

 

The big thing is this. If you decide you want some mods that add more NPCs to the game and IC is already installed then it can't do anything for those additional NPCs as it has no scripts and cannot react to the situation on demand. Any NPC added to the game after IC will not gain the protection from it. Therefore you'd still need to install RFYL and/or WVA to deal with the problem.

 

[...] IC is not a replacement for RFYL and WVA. Their guide is assuming way too much about how all 3 of those mods work.

 

Nebulous112: Arthmoor, to clarify: does this issue you describe with Immersive Citizens only occur when adding new mods (with new NPCs) to an existing save?

 

Or any mods installed or updated (with new NPCs) after Immersive Citizens was installed, even on a brand new game? I.E. Mods installed after Immersive Citizens in the "installation order" for a new game.

 

[...]

 

Arthmoor: It would occur with any additional NPCs added to the game through mods after ICAO had been installed.

 

If you have not yet actually started the game, it won't matter. This only applies if you've been running an existing save, even for a moment, and then decide to add more mods and continue on with the same save.

 

Nebulous112: [...]

 

Would updating new versions of affected existing mods (originally installed before a new game) cause the same issue?

 

Arthmoor: Only if those updates happen to include more NPCs than they started with.

 

This is why an "on demand" solution is preferable. The only drawback is that it requires scripts and that's not something Shurah wanted in his mod.

 

I'm not sure if you guys feel this requires a warning in the Immersive Citizens wiki page or not. However, this is good info to know. Especially if Cutting Room Floor or other mods get updates that add new NPCs.

 

Anyway, I am planning on updating to 2.2.9.2 over the weekend, so I am definitely stoked to try out Immersive Citizens. It does look phenomenal. :-)

 

Edit: (clarity)

I don't see the point of your comment, this limitation is clearly explained in the mod's description. Besides, I'm seriously thinking about adding scripts to my mod to add a MCM menu to turn off/on the mod or some features. The AI will remain script free. More details soon.

 

 

 

 

Btw an update should come soon, I just need to finish the preview video and the changelog.

Edited November 27, 2015 by shurah