TechAngel85 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Having this installed for around 20 levels worth of leveling, I'm recommending this for STEP:Core. The only reason I can think that it might not make Core is because of the magnitude of the edits to NPCs which causes conflicts with any mod that alter town and/or interior architecture and/or object placements. Either way, this is STEP material! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssArrBee Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 I thought this mod was already accepted. I guess certain packs can just specifically leave it out if they change a lot of stuff with all the city mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechAngel85 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 This is going to be one of those must-have mods like SMIM. You can, but you just shouldn't play without it installed. :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afonik Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Unfortunately development seemed to have stop ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechAngel85 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Unfortunately development seemed to have stop ... He's probably just taking a break. Major mods like this take a lot of time and effort from the authors. He's still active so give it time. The work that has already been done is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechAngel85 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Accepted for STEP:Core v2.2.9.2. This mod replaces When Vampires Attack and Run For Your Lives. It also replaces the "Go Home" feature in Wet & Cold. Early adopters will need to uninstall the aforementioned mod and disable the Wet & Cold feature in the MCM menu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechAngel85 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I've put this into section H for the time being. Here's my reasons:This is not a fix. It really doesn't fix very many bugs. It does fix a few but the majority of the mod enhances or changes NPC behavior. So the Fixes section doesn't make sense.The is not a Gameplay mod. This mod doesn't affect how you play the game. It only affects how you interact with NPCs. So the Gameplay section doesn't really fit either, but it could go there when looking at other mods placed within that section.This mod does make massive overhauls of NPC (character) behavior. Therefore, it seems to best fit within the Characters and Creatures section.That's my logic anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurah Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) @ TechAngel85 and all STEP core members: Thank you for your support, you helped me a lot.Concerning the mods listed as incompatible, after a long investigation and a long reflexion, my conclusion is that it's not possible to support these mods. My mod is not really incompatible, "not designed to work with" is more suited. Here a short explanation: to work, an AI uses one or several references, in my case, I use extra invisible markers positioned according to the layout of cities/towns. To adapt my mod to ETaC, Skyrim radioactive or JK's Skyrim, it would require to reposition several hundred of markers, but sometimes the changes done by these mods are so deep that I have no place to reposition them. So it would require to redo several AI. Another problem is that some of these mods also disrupt the vanilla AI used by the citizens and some quests taking place in cities/towns, for the simple reason that these AI/quests have been also designed according the to cities/towns architecture.In short, it's more fast and more smart to create my own city overhaul, which will be compatible by default and bug free, rather than to create a version of my mod designed to work with one of these mods.Besides, the town overhaul from Arthmoor are compatible by default with my mod. So for me, there is no reason to support directly ETaC, JK's Skyrim or Skyrim radioactive. In my opinion, it will be much more usefull to spend my time to do a tutorial about navmeshing in order to encourage the development of towns overhauls which will be compatible with my mod. Edited September 14, 2016 by shurah 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssArrBee Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 A navmeshing tutorial would probably be amazing for many, many people. It seems that the patches to some of those mods aren't even patches. They are more like different versions of your mod altogether. I don't think that amount of time is required by you after all the work that already goes into making a mod like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechAngel85 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I agree. It was never your responsibility to make compatibility patches for those mods. Those mods messed with too many vanilla mechanics. It's those author's responsibility to make patches, or better yet, new versions which are designed better and more compatible with vanilla game features and mechanics, in turn, Immersive Citizens and other mods. Those authors need to go the extra mile to give their user base what they want....compatibility. Even Arthmoor knows this. His latest versions of Cutting Room Floor and Bring Out Your Dead have been updated to work better with vanilla mechanics by pointing to NPC references rather than editing the NPC records themselves (or something along those lines). This update made those two mods made them 100% compatible with Immersive Citizens and all other mods that change NPC records. I'm happy to hear that your time will not be taken up by trying to make those mods compatible. This makes more time for you to focus on Immersive Citizens, itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kryptopyr Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Tech, it's not the responsibility of those mod authors to make patches either. They are under no obligation to do so and have probably already put hundreds, if not thousands, of hours into their respective mods. Let's not dismiss the significant amount of effort that those authors have already contributed to their mods for the sake of users. It's not always possible for a mod author to realize their vision and intention for a mod while also maintaining compatibility with other mods, or sometimes it's just simply not a priority for them. That is their right and prerogative. They have no responsibility to ensure their mods are inherently compatible with other mods. If two mods are not compatible with one another, then users must simply decide which one to use. Shurah, I agree wholeheartedly with your decision. It isn't your responsibility to create compatibility patches for other mods. As you said, other modders will almost certainly come along and create new city/village overhauls that are designed with your mod in mind, or the older mods will be adapted (like the new Lite version of JK's Cities). Personally, I'm really hoping that you'll decide to focus your efforts on expanding the amazing AI in your mod to the NPCs in other cities and towns. You've done an incredible job, and I wish you the best of luck with your project. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neovalen Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Tech, it's not the responsibility of those mod authors to make patches either. They are under no obligation to do so and have probably already put hundreds, if not thousands, of hours into their respective mods. Let's not dismiss the significant amount of effort that those authors have already contributed to their mods for the sake of users. It's not always possible for a mod author to realize their vision and intention for a mod while also maintaining compatibility with other mods, or sometimes it's just simply not a priority for them. That is their right and prerogative. They have no responsibility to ensure their mods are inherently compatible with other mods. If two mods are not compatible with one another, then users must simply decide which one to use. Shurah, I agree wholeheartedly with your decision. It isn't your responsibility to create compatibility patches for other mods. As you said, other modders will almost certainly come along and create new city/village overhauls that are designed with your mod in mind, or the older mods will be adapted (like the new Lite version of JK's Cities). Personally, I'm really hoping that you'll decide to focus your efforts on expanding the amazing AI in your mod to the NPCs in other cities and towns. You've done an incredible job, and I wish you the best of luck with your project. Totally agree with all of your points and also want to wish Shurah the best of luck in expanding his great mod as its totally changed the game in my opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechAngel85 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Responsibility was possibly not the right word. I simply meant that if anyone is going to make them compatible, it would lay more with the authors of those city mods due to the way they are designed. Being a mod author myself, if I wanted Jaggarsfeld Extended to be compatible with other mods like Hunterborn and users asked for it, it would be more my responsible than that of the other authors to make that happen. Same thing here. Just my opinion. And you're right, some mods simply can't be compatible due to design and scope. I don't use these mods so it's no loss to me. If I did use a city overhaul it would most likely be the Dawn of Skyrim collection. These are more suitable for how I play and mod the game; not straying too far from vanilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssArrBee Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Do we have permission to use this mod's patches in the STEP Patches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechAngel85 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Haven't asked but I'm sure Shurah won't mind. Maybe he'll pop in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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