ACCEPTED Better Shaped Weapons - BSW (by masterofshadows and LeanWolf)

[TechAngel85]

Okay, here is the compare of the two mods:

 

STEP >> BSW

 

 

Some of the STEP ones look ridiculous, imo. The arrows are far too long in the quiver and/or the quiver opening is far too small to carry a fully loaded quiver. Closer Quivers and Longer Arrows (STEP) has the quivers pushed really low on the body in some cases and I can notice some stretching of the textures here and there due to the narrowed and elongated meshes. BSW is far more consistent all around, imo.

[EssArrBee]

Doesn't Closer Quivers also have compatibility patches? We might need to look into that. I think the AMB Skyforge Weapons and Explosive Bolts Visualized are the ones.

[GrantSP]

To me the BSW quivers look... wrong. I'm not sure why, maybe because they sit too high on the back and are very wide. I'm not a weaponsmith but there's just something odd about the look of them.

Also they might look really out of place if you have quivers placed over the hips horizontally. Though that option probably isn't a STEP recommendation, not sure on that. Is it?

[TechAngel85]

@SRB,

There can't be compatibility patches...these are altered meshes. You use one or the other...no patching possible.

 

@GrantSP

The BSW meshes are actually much closer to vanilla if I remember right (can take some screens later). CQLA, have elongated and narrowed meshes which causes stretching on a few of the quivers. Just look at sets #2, 4, 6, and 7. The textures are clearly stretched out when looking at the details. Also, the hip option is not a STEP recommended option.

[EssArrBee]

CQLA has done quivers for other mods is what I meant by patches. BSW does not.

[TechAngel85]

There's not and there's not going to be from the looks of the mod page. BSW authors has already stated they're not making on and CQLA author is out of commission and said not to expect any more updates. It looks like it's going to be one or the other.

[Octopuss]

I switched to the quivers from BSW long time ago. They look a lot more realistic to me and the position is more natural.

[TechAngel85]

Yeah, I've been playing a Ranger-based character so I've been using them for a long time. The quivers from CQLA just do not feel natural. People may not notice this since many do not play with bows consistently; however, bows are nearly exclusively the only weapons I use and in doing this it was clear to me early on that the quivers felt...off. So I just tested BSW out of curiosity for a while and haven't went back.

[EssArrBee]

The problem with archery is that what works and what is natural aren't the same things. Archery has always been about what works. Archers even carry three or four arrows in their draw hand for faster shooting close range. Quivers may be put in tons of positions on the body. It's very subjective and not at all like the world shown to us by Hollywood. For instance, I switched to shooting left handed since I'm left eye dominant eventhough I'm right handed. I also keep two extra arrows in my bow for speed shooting. It works quite well.

[TechAngel85]

The problem with archery is that what works and what is natural aren't the same things. Archery has always been about what works. Archers even carry three or four arrows in their draw hand for faster shooting close range. Quivers may be put in tons of positions on the body. It's very subjective and not at all like the world shown to us by Hollywood. For instance, I switched to shooting left handed since I'm left eye dominant eventhough I'm right handed. I also keep two extra arrows in my bow for speed shooting. It works quite well.

I haven't done archery in several years, but what you say is true. I don't think the game can produce this ( until someone creates a mod for it ) so we can only find what is the best "feel" for what the game can produce. For me, this is BSW over CQLA.

[oqhansoloqo]

I think the quivers in BSW look better too, from your comparison pics.  The only issue I see is potentially that when arrows are drawn from BSW quivers that they aren't the proper length - from someone who has it installed, does that happen?

[TechAngel85]

If I've not mistaken those are two separate meshes. The drawn arrows do not actually come from the quiver but I could be wrong. I'm planning on testing this either tonight or tomorrow. I will say that I've never noticed this issues but I haven't played will all bows and all arrows.

[oqhansoloqo]

I'm assuming they are separate meshes and that the drawn arrows don't actually come from the quiver.  When the arrows are drawn though, I'm wondering whether they clip through the bottom of the quiver before they are lifted (it's been such a long time since I've even seen the vanilla quivers to remember if it happened then) or they just get longer when they are pulled out and loaded.  Maybe they don't though and having the longer quivers w/ longer arrows didn't even make sense.

 

Here's some quotes from CQLA author, that might give us some insight:

 

"v3 is out! Now with longer arrows! I received many requests to make my mod compatible with "Proper Length Arrows"."

 

"CQv2 has vanilla length arrows. As far as the longer arrows. I made this to stop the arrowhead from resting on my female characters hand and honestly that's what it's really made for; Female characters. I say that because if you have a male character and use vanilla arrows you'll notice that the arrow length and arrowhead placement is perfectly fine. There is no clipping on the hand or anything. Unfortunately women are scaled differently in the game so the arrows and bow shrink when in females hands which leads to the clipping of the arrowhead on the hand. So long story short. If you have a male character you really don't need ANY of the longer arrow mods. Hope that clears some stuff up for you. Edit: If you want a visual representation of what i'm talking about go into the images and look at the image name "side comparison v2 vs v3". The v2 arrows are vanilla length while v3 are the long arrows."

 

"There's no way the arrows are the same length on the bow if it installed correctly (with v3). Also, since you have confirmed that you do have longer quivers there is 0% chance that the nocked arrow isn't longer. I say that with such assurance because the arrow that is drawn up to the bow is *inside* the longer quiver."

 

 

What I gather from all that, is that there is another mod that makes arrows longer called "Proper Length Arrows" in attempt to fix an issue with arrow heads resting on female hands while drawn.  The longer arrows part of the CQLA mod was an attempt to visually be compatible with that mod.  So the vanilla length quivers may actually fit the length of the arrows better... unless STEP adds a mod that lengthens arrows to fix the female arrowhead-hand issue.

Edited February 21, 2015 by oqhansoloqo

[z929669]

I thought CQLA was created:

• to fix the "floating quiver problem" - Does this mod also resolve this issue?
• to be compatible with "Proper Length Arrows" mod, because drawing vanilla arrows pulled the arrow head into the notch/hand area (i.e., too short) - Does this mod fix that issue?

I always thought many of the vanilla meshes were too 'fat' and 'short' and generally cumbersome (aside from floating in the air behind the body), and CQLA fixed those issues for me. I also like the lower-riding quivers of CQLA, and long arrows are more accurate, IMO. They look too long because some quivers are too short.

 

That said, the textures work better on the BSW meshes, and BSW is closer to vanilla.

 

Last question: Does one or the other of these contenders work better with other mods like DSR, or are they both completely independent of such mods?

 

If no difference in terms of clipping and mod compat, BSW is better for STEP.

[onem4nb4nd]

The mod author uses a hip-placed quiver in his display screenshots but he has this to say.
Quotes from the BSW mod author: "The gap between weapon [quiver] and body is decided by worn armour (each armour has it's own "weapon adjust" value) and your body mesh and skeleton."
"I won't be moving any quivers, that's not the way to adjust weapon position. Why move every quiver and arrow separately when you can just adjust the quiver node on the skeleton? So if you prefer these models but don't like the vanilla distance, then just adjust the quiver node on your skeleton.nif or use an already adjusted custom skeleton like xp32's."
You can manually adjust this gap distance in the racemenu if you have the appropriate STEP core mods. So, I don't know what CQLA does to fix the gap; maybe it adjusts each one individually.*

This is why we need CQLA:
Looking at CQLA's modpage it has comparison screenshots and a "why things are, the way they are" screenshot; if you want a visual idea of both what the problem and solution are. The quiver mesh is stretched as long as it is because it's just long enough to fit daedric arrows, which are the worst performer in regards to the arrow/hand clip issue. If the quiver were any shorter, daedric arrows would poke through.
Going by that information, the arrows on your back are the same arrows you draw. The length of quiver is dependant on how much arrow you need.
On the other hand, if you never play a female character, then you won't have the short arrow/hand clipping problem, and don't need CQLA at all.

I can't imagine any DSR compatibility problems with quivers unless they're vastly different from vanilla - none of these are. If I remember correctly, BSW has a DSR patch for melee weapons/staves not quivers; while CQLA requires no patch.

*This post on the BSW nexus forums might shed some insight on how arrow meshes are oriented in the quiver/in 1st person/in 3rd person if anyone wants to look more into it. It's slightly over my head since I never edit meshes.

Edited February 21, 2015 by onem4nb4nd