ACCEPTED Weapon and Armor Fixes (by kryptopyr)

[ElminsterAU]

Also, some values in the 2.2.8 STEP Patch indicate that the patch was generated against WAF with the True Weapons option.

[DoYouEvenModBro]

Yea, you're right. I'm not sure then. This mod always confused me. 

[kryptopyr]

Which weapons from the AMB Content Addon conflict with True Weapons?

 

Also, I'm not sure the conflicts are as serious as you think.  You'll mainly end up with inconsistencies, but as long as the other mod's author properly balanced their mod, then that balance should remain intact.  This is because every weapons mod that I'm aware of that adds weapons to the leveled lists (I'm sure there's probably a few exceptions, but I have a fair number of mods installed to compare to), does so by adding weapons to the primary LItem... lists, not the Sublits.  If they add the weapons to the primary LItem lists then this won't create any imbalances.  What you'll end up with are possible inconsistencies, though.

 

For example, Immersive Weapons adds a new Orcish Greatsword.  It gets added to the leveled lists at Lvl 6.  Presumably, this orcish greatsword has been given stats consistent with a vanilla orcish greatsword, which means it's significantly weaker than the WAF True Weapons version.  However, it will still show up at Lvl 6 because that's where it was placed in the leveled lists, so even though it's stats might be inconsistent with other Orcish weapons, it will still be balanced according to those stats. 

 

Immersive Weapons and Heavy Armory are the two major mods that I'm aware of that add in variations of the existing weapon types.  There's already a True Weapons patch for Heavy Armory, and I'm working on building one for Immersive Weapons.  As it currently stands, with IW and WAF-Complete Plus/True Weapons there will be some inconsistencies, but no real imbalances.

[redirishlord]

Thanks for the insight, I've got a better understanding of the leveled lists and custom weapons.

[ElminsterAU]

Ok, AMB CA is a bad example as it doesn't add much weapons. But e.g. IW adds a number of "orcish" weapons, which appear to be leveled (both in stats and in their levels in leveled lists) to match the power level of the vanilla "orcish" weapons.

 

Two issue with that:

1) you end up with different "orcish" weapons at different power levels

2) because of the way how the leveled lists are structured, even with a bashed patch, there is the possibility that the (more powerful) WAF changed orcish weapons show up at the (lower) vanilla level already.

 

Sorry, I haven't got WAF True Weapons installed right now, so I can't give specific examples.

[ElminsterAU]

To be a bit more specific, IIRC, WAF TW moved Orcish weapons from level 6 to 9 (or something like that) in the LItem lists. IW, loading after WAF and adding new items to the list still contained the orginal Orcish weapons at level 6. The Bashed Patch, seeing the Relev tag on IW seems to accept that IW is allowed to move the Orcish weapons back to level 6, and in the absence of any other changes that needed merging, just left the IW version of the LItem lists to stand as the winner. Resulting in WAF TWs (more powerful) Orcish weapons spawning at the vanilla level.

[EssArrBee]

Also, some values in the 2.2.8 STEP Patch indicate that the patch was generated against WAF with the True Weapons option.

Yes, this is correct, someone added the TW version to the guide without letting me know and it didn't make it into the last version. Regardless, 2.2.9 is soon. Very soon.

 

Which weapons from the AMB Content Addon conflict with True Weapons?

 

Also, I'm not sure the conflicts are as serious as you think.  You'll mainly end up with inconsistencies, but as long as the other mod's author properly balanced their mod, then that balance should remain intact.  This is because every weapons mod that I'm aware of that adds weapons to the leveled lists (I'm sure there's probably a few exceptions, but I have a fair number of mods installed to compare to), does so by adding weapons to the primary LItem... lists, not the Sublits.  If they add the weapons to the primary LItem lists then this won't create any imbalances.  What you'll end up with are possible inconsistencies, though.

 

For example, Immersive Weapons adds a new Orcish Greatsword.  It gets added to the leveled lists at Lvl 6.  Presumably, this orcish greatsword has been given stats consistent with a vanilla orcish greatsword, which means it's significantly weaker than the WAF True Weapons version.  However, it will still show up at Lvl 6 because that's where it was placed in the leveled lists, so even though it's stats might be inconsistent with other Orcish weapons, it will still be balanced according to those stats. 

 

Immersive Weapons and Heavy Armory are the two major mods that I'm aware of that add in variations of the existing weapon types.  There's already a True Weapons patch for Heavy Armory, and I'm working on building one for Immersive Weapons.  As it currently stands, with IW and WAF-Complete Plus/True Weapons there will be some inconsistencies, but no real imbalances.

If you would just hurry up and update all the mods, this wouldn't be a problem. I mean really kryp, it's all your fault.

[kryptopyr]

If you would just hurry up and update all the mods, this wouldn't be a problem. I mean really kryp, it's all your fault.

I know, I know.  *hangs head in shame*

 

Here I finally get a bunch of my mods updated, then a week later they decide to update the unofficial patches.  Gah.

[ElminsterAU]

Who said life is fair? :P

[Octopuss]

Ew, there were changes in the latest USKP that will force you to update all of the updates? Ouch...

[Neovalen]

USKP releases are so big these days I wouldn't be surprised.

[kryptopyr]

Force me to?  Well, not exactly.  AFAIK, all of the changes were fairly minor, non-critical, things so I don't feel like I need to rush new updates out in order to fix some sort of game-breaking conflict.  But there were a number of changes that do create conflicts and really should be forwarded, so I suspect I'll be updating them all again soon.

[EssArrBee]

Force me to?  Well, not exactly.  AFAIK, all of the changes were fairly minor, non-critical, things so I don't feel like I need to rush new updates out in order to fix some sort of game-breaking conflict.  But there were a number of changes that do create conflicts and really should be forwarded, so I suspect I'll be updating them all again soon.

They look over what is in your plugins and use what they feel meets the goal of the UPP. So if you update for the latest UPs, you'd be updating to what is already in WAF/CCF.

[DoubleYou]

I understand what Eliminster is saying here, but it isn't too hard for the pack author to say, "hey, don't use true weapons with this pack... it'll unbalance it," or "hey, if you're using true weapons, use this patch.esp." It's not like a Female mesh body replacement where a pack author would have to say "hey, you can't use this mod with my pack... at all."

[Killscendo]

I think its a pity there isnt a version of this mod that doesn't have the armor rating and damage changes.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Killscendo