DROPPED Terrain Bump - Texture Pack (by SparrowPrince)

[Neovalen]

Honestly in 99% of cases the difference between compressed/uncompressed is almost invisible in game.

[steveley]

IMHO, the DDSopt guide might need some updating as well. It refers to a STEP release from some time back, and the mod list table could be updated. I realize that could be more work than anyone has time for though.

 

I know nothing about graphics, but I am fairly literate, and to be honest I can barely understand the DDSopt Guide in its current form. I was able to walk through it and take care of the Bethesda HRDLC and other DLC BSA's, but to be honest it was a slog. There were quite a few manual steps which I missed the first time through because of the wording about when to check or uncheck the option for ignoring known file types was confusing.

 

It would be AMAZING if some genius programming guru where to write some sort of script which would identify which mods are installed on the system, compare them to a master list (similar to how BOSS does?), and then automatically run DDSopt with the most appropriate settings to optimize the respective files per STEP recommendations. Talk about nirvana! Also, it should provide the user with a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie, and perhaps a back massage. But I'd be thrilled just to have the auto-detect/auto-optimize functionality... :)

 

Perhaps this could be a feature of the combined STEP automated installer project, but I could be reaching too far here.

[Kelmych]

How would we go about doing this? Also do you mean R5G6B5 compression in DDSOpt?

Correct ... but only on model-space or tangent-space normal maps. You can use the filters.

 

The Terrain Bump package contains only tangent-space normal maps so for this particular file you don't need to do any filtering in DDSopt. To perforn the processing start DDSopt as usual and select the Terrain Bump file as input. Click the "Constraints" tab and where is says "Tangent-space normal-maps" select "R5G5B5 (2:3, lossy)". Under resolution limit in the same tab you can

• use  "2048x2048" for the 2 values if you don't want any resolution changes,
• use "1024x1024" if you want to reduce the sizes of only the larger 2Kx2K normal maps (note that there are only a few of these, so it might be better leave them at full resolution), or
• use "50%" to reduce the size of all the normal maps by 50% (2Kx2K maps become 1Kx1K, and 1Kx1K maps become 512x512)

For the terrain bump file I use the file without having DDSopt change any resolutions, but you might want to do some size reduction if have a significant need for VRAM reduction. A lot of these are already fairly small, so there might not be a lot of value changing the sizes.

Some of the textures should be added to the ini so they are skipped. Pretty much any of the textures that are smooth are preferable as uncompressed. Stuff like the dirt roads and snow are really noisy and I doubt anyone will be able to tell the difference.

Perhaps, but even smooth textures don't suffer much quality loss. Will need to evaluate a few of those, but face textures seem to look fine as an example.

 

R5G5B5 is an uncompressed format; it has a little less numerical precision than R8G8B8.

 

For mods with uncompressed normal maps, changing from the usual R8G8B8 to R5G5B5 reduces the normal map storage size by 50% typically without any noticeable quality loss.

[Kelmych]

IMHO, the DDSopt guide might need some updating at well. It refers to a STEP release from some time back, and the mod list table could be updated. I realize that could be more work than anyone has time for though.

 

It's a little behind the current STEP list. It will certainly be updated in time for the 2.3 STEP release.

 

I know nothing about graphics, but I am fairly literate, and to be honest I can barely understand the DDSopt Guide in its current form. I was able to walk through it and take care of the Bethesda HRDLC and other DLC BSA's, but to be honest it was a slog. There were quite a few manual steps which I missed the first time through because of the wording about when to check or uncheck the option for ignoring known file types was confusing.

 

In those areas where you found it confusing, you might want to try rewording portions of the guide steps on the Wiki to make them simpler to follow.

 

It would be AMAZING if some genius programming guru where to write some sort of script which would identify which mods are installed on the system, compare them to a master list (similar to how BOSS does?), and then automatically run DDSopt with the most appropriate settings to optimize the respective files per STEP recommendations. Talk about nirvana! Also, it should provide the user with a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie, and perhaps a back massage. But I'd be thrilled just to have the auto-detect/auto-optimize functionality... :)

 

DDSopt can be run in a command line mode with a few of the options settable via command line switches. The command line options don't seem to include using the ddsopt.ini file or using the parameters set using the GUI version (output resolution, etc.). If they were, it would be feasible to write a batch program to do this.

 

 

Perhaps this could be a feature of the combined STEP automated installer project, but I could be reaching too far here.

[phazer11]

Yeah I just set tangient space normals to R5G5B5 and set resolution to 8192x8192 the compression was impressive. I might take a stab at making a video on how to run DDSOpt for general usage. Though that'll eat into the time I could be learning to mod. On that note if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate some tips in my thread in Banter Inn plus there's some nice videos there if you like AMV's at any rate.

[Guest]

I would recommend leaving some textures used by actual 3D models uncompressed (mountains, ice) and compressing the rest. I say this because on the rock textures I just released, the edges of the normal maps looked so jagged and ugly compressed. I had to update it to half resolution uncompressed normals. So z929669 are you going to release an optional compressed version or something?

[phazer11]

I would recommend against it (releasing an optimized pack). I'm of the opinion that since generally modders don't release optimized packs every end-user so do their due diligence and attempt and optimization anyways to see if it at least makes a difference in file size and if so weight the pros and cons of using the compressed textures. The Pros of course are generally much better VRAM and therefore RAM usage and therefore generally better stability.

[EssArrBee]

Well, they do take up more space while uncompressed, but that's why they are half the size. Half sized uncompressed are about as large as full size DXT5 compressed.

[z929669]

How would we go about doing this? Also do you mean R5G6B5 compression in DDSOpt?

Correct ... but only on model-space or tangent-space normal maps. You can use the filters.

 

The Terrain Bump package contains only tangent-space normal maps so for this particular file you don't need to do any filtering in DDSopt. To perforn the processing start DDSopt as usual and select the Terrain Bump file as input. Click the "Constraints" tab and where is says "Tangent-space normal-maps" select "R5G5B5 (2:3' date=' lossy)". Under resolution limit in the same tab you can

• use  "2048x2048" for the 2 values if you don't want any resolution changes,
• use "1024x1024" if you want to reduce the sizes of only the larger 2Kx2K normal maps (note that there are only a few of these, so it might be better leave them at full resolution), or
• use "50%" to reduce the size of all the normal maps by 50% (2Kx2K maps become 1Kx1K, and 1Kx1K maps become 512x512)

For the terrain bump file I use the file without having DDSopt change any resolutions, but you might want to do some size reduction if have a significant need for VRAM reduction. A lot of these are already fairly small, so there might not be a lot of value changing the sizes.

Some of the textures should be added to the ini so they are skipped. Pretty much any of the textures that are smooth are preferable as uncompressed. Stuff like the dirt roads and snow are really noisy and I doubt anyone will be able to tell the difference.

Perhaps, but even smooth textures don't suffer much quality loss. Will need to evaluate a few of those, but face textures seem to look fine as an example.

 

R5G5B5 is an uncompressed format; it has a little less numerical precision than R8G8B8.

 

For mods with uncompressed normal maps, changing from the usual R8G8B8 to R5G5B5 reduces the normal map storage size by 50% typically without any noticeable quality loss.

My bad ... thanks for clarifying and providing instructions ;)

IMHO' date=' the DDSopt guide might need some updating at well. It refers to a STEP release from some time back, and the mod list table could be updated. I realize that could be more work than anyone has time for though.

 

It's a little behind the current STEP list. It will certainly be updated in time for the 2.3 STEP release.

 

I know nothing about graphics, but I am fairly literate, and to be honest I can barely understand the DDSopt Guide in its current form. I was able to walk through it and take care of the Bethesda HRDLC and other DLC BSA's, but to be honest it was a slog. There were quite a few manual steps which I missed the first time through because of the wording about when to check or uncheck the option for ignoring known file types was confusing.

 

In those areas where you found it confusing, you might want to try rewording portions of the guide steps on the Wiki to make them simpler to follow.

 

It would be AMAZING if some genius programming guru where to write some sort of script which would identify which mods are installed on the system, compare them to a master list (similar to how BOSS does?), and then automatically run DDSopt with the most appropriate settings to optimize the respective files per STEP recommendations. Talk about nirvana! Also, it should provide the user with a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie, and perhaps a back massage. But I'd be thrilled just to have the auto-detect/auto-optimize functionality... :)

 

DDSopt can be run in a command line mode with a few of the options settable via command line switches. The command line options don't seem to include using the ddsopt.ini file or using the parameters set using the GUI version (output resolution, etc.). If they were, it would be feasible to write a batch program to do this.

 

 

Perhaps this could be a feature of the combined STEP automated installer project, but I could be reaching too far here.[/quote']

All of our users are encouraged to edit the wiki!!! This is a COMMUNITY project, and we could use the help

 

I would recommend leaving some textures used by actual 3D models uncompressed (mountains' date=' ice) and compressing the rest. I say this because on the rock textures I just released, the edges of the normal maps looked so jagged and ugly compressed. I had to update it to half resolution uncompressed normals. So z929669 are you going to release an optional compressed version or something?[/quote']

I hadn't actually thought about doing that, but I would if you are privy to that idea. Again, here are the compares of TB versus TB-optimized in game (images 2-3 in each set)

[Guest]

I don't mind having more options if you are up for it? ;) I WILL upload some GIFs soon, but it's too nice here to go on my desktop at the moment. My office is like a oven when the PC is on. :D Ground textures are always at your feet anyway, so they are not close to your head... Rocks and ice on the other hand are.

[EssArrBee]

I don't mind having more options if you are up for it? ;) I WILL upload some GIFs soon' date=' but it's too nice here to go on my desktop at the moment. My office is like a oven when the PC is on. :D Ground textures are always at your feet anyway, so they are not close to your head... Rocks and ice on the other hand are.[/quote']

I actually use That's Ice with the Terrain Bump normals and the ice looks really amazing, almost has this look in the sunlight that it's starting to melt. I would suggest adding a few screenshots from those big ice walls near Sarthaal to get a nice comparison of those textures.

[z929669]

I don't mind having more options if you are up for it? ;) I WILL upload some GIFs soon' date=' but it's too nice here to go on my desktop at the moment. My office is like a oven when the PC is on. :D Ground textures are always at your feet anyway, so they are not close to your head... Rocks and ice on the other hand are.[/quote']

I see. You are more concerned with close-up appearance of the compressed formats (and my screens are all distant appearance). I should get some close-up compares for the record, and then we can determine how to proceed. I don't mind doing the work if you don't ;)

[Guest]

That's what I was going to GIF when I have chance - the ground. I don't use DDSOpt, so it might be easier for you to batch save the textures in that, which I hope you don't mind doing because I will do it if you want? Edit: You said you don't mind. Thanks.

 

Yes (lol) always wondered why you only had long-ish range shots. To me (bar the mountains) the pictures should be taken about medium range, looking at the floor, maybe even disabling grass to get a better look. :)

 

@Ess

 

Yeah I put a lot of time and care into the That's Ice normals. The ones in this mod are based on vanilla, because I wanted to keep all of them pretty close to default for this pack. It depends on your taste though I suppose.

[z929669]

Yep, I'll take care of it and report back

[Kelmych]

I would recommend leaving some textures used by actual 3D models uncompressed (mountains' date=' ice) and compressing the rest. I say this because on the rock textures I just released, the edges of the normal maps looked so jagged and ugly compressed. I had to update it to half resolution uncompressed normals. So z929669 are you going to release an optional compressed version or something?[/quote']

My comment about this was also suggesting that these be uncompressed; I did mention Ethatrons's comment that sometimes the R5G5B5 uncompressed format is adequate (vs. R8G8B8). Ethatron and others have been suggesting that when the mod provides uncompressed tangent space normal maps we should try to keep these maps in an uncompressed format, and that sometimes even half size uncompressed normal maps are better than DirectX compressed ones at full resolution.