ACCEPTED XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended (by Team XPMSE)

[z929669]

42 minutes ago, CorneliusC said:

There is now a new, 5.01 version which re-adds an esp for the 'Minimal' and the 'Basic' version.

Just taking a look at the esp, which edits some game settings; the meshes should still work without the esp and one could just hide it, like suggested in the current recommendations?

Yes, the plugin should be hidden unless the architecture of the mod has changed drastically. I will update our instructions pending settling of 'dust' that seems possible with this mod over the next 24-48

[Mousetick]

45 minutes ago, CorneliusC said:

Just taking a look at the esp, which edits some game settings; the meshes should still work without the esp and one could just hide it, like suggested in the current recommendations?

Yes. You could use the new Minimal/Basic plugin if you want: as you noted, it only edits game settings (unlike the old plugin which added troublesome features whether you wanted them or not). The MA didn't even bother to ESL-flag this new plugin, so it uses a full plugin slot for overriding 11 vanilla game settings - a huge waste.

The edited game settings are borrowed from the Realistic Ragdolls and Force SE mod:

Quote

ESP:
-Reduces the amount of force for ragdolls to realistic level with different force options to choose from
-Fixed glitch with lightning spell duration causing ragdolls to launch themselves when killed with any weapon
-Arrows will no longer push bodies far away when killed by stealth damage
-Realistic ragdoll reaction from melee hits. Higher the final hit damage the more force is applied
-Magic no longer sends people flying 20 feet away
-Unrelenting Force Shout should still send ragdolls flying

Are these changes necessary or useful? I have no idea. My game has been working fine for a very long time without them.

[z929669]

I'm glad I waited on this one. It's been updated yet again without changelog. Gonna wait a week before updating this one.

[CorneliusC]

On 8/18/2023 at 4:34 PM, z929669 said:

I'm glad I waited on this one. It's been updated yet again without changelog. Gonna wait a week before updating this one.

The current version, 5.04, didn't change since sunday! and there is now a changelog mentioning several small changes related only to the 'Extended Version'. 'Minimal' and 'Basic' version still are just the meshes, with no scripts for these versions (as also stated by the author), plus the already as 'optional' discussed esp, which can be hidden or deleted.

[ButchDiavolo]

I have had it installed since the "new" version came out and installed the updates when they came out. I installed it as basic and deleted the esp. Had no problems what so ever. (Except forgetting to re-run FNIS after updates, so getting T-pose in game *eye roll*)

[Kattmandu]

I'm curious, why does the guide move the esp under optional to make it unavailable?  Is there any harm to leaving the esp in the load order?

[Mousetick]

31 minutes ago, Kattmandu said:

I'm curious, why does the guide move the esp under optional to make it unavailable?  Is there any harm to leaving the esp in the load order?

It was harmful in previous versions and required a bunch of fix patches that didn't completely solve all the troubles. In the new 5.0x version, choosing 'Basic' or 'Minimal' installation options still install an ESP plugin, but it's "harmless" in comparison. Whether it makes a positive difference vs. no plugin at all is open to debate. Unless you'd like to thoroughly test the behavior of ragdolls (and other possible side-effects) in-game with vs. without this plugin, and report your observations, it's recommended you don't use it.

See this earlier post for more details.

[Kattmandu]

7 hours ago, Mousetick said:

It was harmful in previous versions and required a bunch of fix patches that didn't completely solve all the troubles. In the new 5.0x version, choosing 'Basic' or 'Minimal' installation options still install an ESP plugin, but it's "harmless" in comparison. Whether it makes a positive difference vs. no plugin at all is open to debate. Unless you'd like to thoroughly test the behavior of ragdolls (and other possible side-effects) in-game with vs. without this plugin, and report your observations, it's recommended you don't use it.

See this earlier post for more details.

I see. I was curious because I have installed mods in the past which require XPMSSE but wasn't sure if those mods required the ESP or just the files in the folder structure so I enabled the ESP when I had those mods installed.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Kattmandu

[Mousetick]

5 hours ago, Kattmandu said:

I was curious because I have installed mods in the past which require XPMSSE but wasn't sure if those mods required the ESP or just the files in the folder structure so I enabled the ESP when I had those mods installed.

Typically mods which require XPMSSE specify whether they only require the skeleton resources (i.e. without the plugin) or the whole shebang (i.e. with the plugin), or something in between (mainly for the physics stuff). Those that I've come across or use(d) in my experience only required the skeletons. I don't care about boob/butt/shlong physics and stay as far away from those mods as possible, so my experience with XMPSSE-dependent mods is quite limited.

Better ask the mod authors themselves, who probably have no clue, especially regarding the new XPMSSE 5.0x version.

[z929669]

I emphatically agree with Mouse's last. The skeleton is all that we use, because most mod authors use this mod to support what I'd call 'edgy' modding (not that I'm against it for the general public ... no comment, but it's off the beaten path of what Skyrim is all about, and we don't advocate anything that is inappropriate with respect to the original intent of the game).

That being said, this skeleton supports all sorts of character-physics dynamics that align well with the original intent of this game. What people choose to use it for is none of our business, but we use it for realism of vanilla mechanics.

[Kattmandu]

I tried SOS 10-ish years ago when I first started installing mods.  Haven't used it since.  But like you said, there are all sorts of character physics (aside from SOS) which I have tried here and there.  Currently, the only physics I'm using is Vanilla Hair SMP and SMP Wind which both require Faster HDT-SMP which in itself requires XPMSSE.  I installed the Basic version and moved the ESP under optional and the SMP hair/wind seems to be working okay.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Kattmandu

[Mousetick]

I found one helpful clarification from the MA about the FOMOD options on this mod's recent comments, among the ocean of confusing and approximative answers:

Quote

Minimal installs no XPMS(S)E Skeleton Rig Maps (You basically use the Vanilla ones). Basic installs the HDT Latest Skeleton Rig maps additional to what Minimal installs. The Rig Maps are responsible to tell the game what nodes in the skeleton are animated and which are not animated. Vanilla has less nodes that are allowed to be animated than the XPMS(S)E and are missing default position data which could course problems with animations or HDT. Hence no Full animation support.

Installing a Skeleton Rig Map requires the use of FNIS/Nemesis. Minimal is strictly only for people that do not want to install FNIS/Nemesis because you need to generate an animation graph that fits to that new Skeleton Rig Map.

[ButchDiavolo]

36 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

I found one helpful clarification from the MA about the FOMOD options on this mod's recent comments, among the ocean of confusing and approximative answers:

FINALLY a straight answer from the MA! Thanks for posting this, Mousetick.

[z929669]

I've found that the closest approximation to 4.81 in 5.04 is Extended,  Racemenu + XPMS MCM + Weapon Styles, SFW - Out of Sync, and None/Select nothing for everything else.

What I do not know is if we ever needed all that stuff in the first place. I suspect not, but if we are using this mod to facilitate extensibility for anyone wishing to add other animation mods atop Step (one intent our guide supports), then this seems the way to go ... hiding the plugin as usual.

[Mousetick]

21 minutes ago, z929669 said:

What I do not know is if we ever needed all that stuff in the first place. I suspect not, but if we are using this mod to facilitate extensibility for anyone wishing to add other animation mods atop Step (one intent our guide supports), then this seems the way to go ... hiding the plugin as usual.

The interface and scripts folder are not used when the 'Racemenu + XPMS MCM' plugin is hidden. Only the meshes folder is used. This was discussed a long time ago in this or another topic when it was decided the plugin should be hidden.

The FOMOD option that is functionally identical to current STEP installation, minus all the crap that was installed but not used, is the 'Basic' option, i.e. only meshes folder (containing skeletons and animations).

Why force users to go through a byzantine array of FOMOD options to install stuff that is not used? Nothing will be missed by selecting 'Basic'. Make it simple for users to install and for you to support.

If users need extra features beyond 'Basic', they can always reinstall the mod and figure out which Extended options they need.