GUIDE Fear and Loathing in New Vegas - Feedback

[kittyvonvita1]

Don't clean navmeshes. It's not even that easy like ITMs and UDRs.

 

I'm just saying that I don't know what option to choose with the latest merge script since up until the latest version the only option was "Renumber FormIDs". I haven't had a chance to review the newest one and won't be able to until next week.

 

Okay, here is what is posted on the 1.8 changelog for Merge Plugins:

 

"Renumbering options:

A new option called "Renumber conflicting FormIDs" has been added. This is the best of two

worlds in that it only renumbers the records that need to be renumbered to avoid fatal conflicts

(duplicate FormIDs), but doesn't renumber everything so esoteric issues relating to renumbering

FormIDs are mitigated. You should always use this option, resorting to "Renumber all FormIDs"

only if merging with "Renumber conflicting FormIDs" isn't creating a functioning merged plugin.

 

You should never use "Don't renumber FormIDs" unless you know what you're doing and are

prepared to face the issues associated with duplicate FormIDs."

 

I will continue to use my set up with 1.8 and 3.0.33 experimental and use the "Renumber conflicting FormIDs."  I'll do a little testing once I'm done and see if everything is functioning properly (which it should I would think.)  Also, with the end in mind, there are a few mods that I personally would like to try to incorporate after using this guide.  Is there a good resource for using Wrye Flash, particuarly about Bash Tags and how to use them for merged mods, like you do in this guide?

[GalenZ]

 Is there a good resource for using Wrye Flash, particuarly about Bash Tags and how to use them for merged mods, like you do in this guide?

I've been doing a lot of merging and tagging the past few weeks.  My root documents are https://tesfans.org/guides/wrye%20bash/docs/Wrye%20Bash%20Advanced%20Readme.html and https://wryemusings.com/Wrye%20Bash.html.  However, I've learned quite a few little subtlties that have never appeared in the documents, especially regarding level lists and inventories.

 

1.  Do NOT use Delev/Relev tags often - and when you do, only use them on up-front overhaul mods like YUP, PN, FOOK, Jsawyer, etc, or mods that *only* patch lists defined in an esp, rather than in one of the game esms.  These tags only affect level lists - but they affect both leveled items (LVLI loot lists) and leveled creature (LVLC) lists.   Delev means that the tagged mod can *remove* things from a master's list - and even if other mods later put a removed entry back on the list, the removal will stand.  Relev means that things like what level the object can be found out can be changed by the tagged mod;  relatively few mods do this.

 

Back when was younger and more ignorant, I tended to added delev/relev tags to any mod that I knew edited level lists.   I have since determined that this is a VERY bad idea.  If you absolutely need to alter a couple of master lists to remove some item, it's best to be very targeted about it.  That is, create a tiny little esp that ONLY edits the very few lists you want to remove stuff from, and tag only that mod.  If you only redefine level lists, then the mod can be merged into the bashed patch and not take up a precious mod slot, and you will ONLY delev/relev the very few lists you want to change.

 

2.  Deflst tags drove me crazy for a while, as the documentation on them is very hard to find.  It ONLY affects FormID lists, such as repair lists.  And somewhat like Delev does, it basically allows you to remove entries from a master list - but by actually *redefining* the whole list, from scratch.  This makes it nastier than Delev, as it also removes items added to the list by ANY mod before it in the load order, not just the mod's masters.   This power means that it should be used VERY sparingly, again only in either upfront overhauls (YUP, PN, FOOK) or very targeted bashable patches that you place *very* early in the load order.

 

3.  The Invent tag, which specify mods that update inventories, has some wierd little quirks when you have multiple mods all trying to change the same inventory.  Specifically, you'd think the last mod tagged 'Invent' that changes an inventory would win - so that you could, say, create a final patch of 'My NPCs' and tag it so it it's inventories would rule.  However, it doesn't work that way, because 'Invent' acts like a Delev tag on a mod's masters.

 

For example, say PN adds a some great armor to a guy.  Then some mod that has PN as a master (say, a merged patch), and an 'Invent' tag, does NOT list the PN armro is that inventory.   The upshot is that no matter how may other mods with Invent tags  try to add that armor back in, Bash will regard that armor as 'deleveled' from the invetory, and will NEVER add it back in in the final Bash patch.

 

This drove me *crazy* for a while - why wasn't the last Invent-tagged mod winning?  To avoid this problem, you need to be *very* careful when adding 'Invent' tags to any mod that has a non-vanilla master.

 

The upshot is, you need to be very careful about grouping mods together in merges.  I strongly suggest you try to make merges have as few masters as possible, preferably only the vanilla set.  If you absolutely need to merge mods that have a non-vanilla masters, group them together if possible.

 

And if you have a mod that has two esps - a base esp, and then a patch for (say) PN - do NOT just toss both those mods into some larger merge willy nilly!  Doing so will mean that Invent tags will cause all sorts of messups in the final bash patch.  If you absolutely need to merge a mod that depends on a non-vanilla master, try to put it in a 'final patch' mod that nothing else will ever overwrite.  For example, I like taking all the (non-bashable) PN/FOOK patches for things like Tales from the Burning sands, and create one final PN-FOOK patch merge that will go pretty much at the end of the load order.

 

4.  As a final hint, avoid merging any mod that BASH can merge itself (i.e. is 'bashable').  Bash can only merge 'patch' mods that don't define any new records, but that's a huge set.  it also gives you an opportunity to create highly targeted 'patches' that don't define anything new themselves, but that provide the final definitions for things like weapons, armosr, ingestibles, etc - things where you may be integrating parts from different mods.

 

I have a large set of patches like this, called things like 'My Weapons.esp', 'My Ingestibles.esp', etc, that provide the final definitions for those classes of items.  And I try to keep all those patches limited to vanilla masters, or at least masters that you know you'll always have, like PN.  If I need to patch an item defined in a non-vanilla master, I'll create a separate bashable patch for everything using that master - e.g. 'My PPA Patch', which contains all records affected by Powered Power Armor - so that if I decide to create a build without that master, I'll have no problem figuring out which records are affected, and can just disable one mod, rather than editing a half-dozen.

 

Best wishes going merge-crazy - 1.8 looks *really* powerful.   I hope this helps.

[EssArrBee]

Go to xEdit support forum and find the bash tagged script. It's way more useful than doing it yourself.

[oqhansoloqo]

Don't clean navmeshes. It's not even that easy like ITMs and UDRs.

Dude, I think its about time you add a note about that in the guide for that mod.  lol

 

So it looks like I wasn't the only one dealing with this, unfortunately I still can't get the damn thing to work. Here's where I found out (And got a possible answer but I can't get to work for me.) It looks like it's a certain way to install in order to have everything in working order but I can't figure it out apparently.

 

Edit: Got it, finally holy crap. Thanks for all the help guys...even if the fix didn't have anything to with the above.

Oh yeah, that link reminds me of something... when I started running the game with admin privs to stop my modded setup from acting really wonky, I did some other things to try to get my modded setup working correctly.  One of them was deciding to unmark "read-only" on the falloutprefs.ini file in my MO profile folder.  I think I also merged all of the settings information in fallout.ini and falloutprefs.ini together, so that both files had the same exact game settings information.  Prior to doing that I had noticed that some of the settings were in both files and yet other settings information was not.  That left for a very confusing situation regarding making manual edits to this information.  I read somewhere that the game will ignore certain settings if they in the wrong ini file.  In response to reading about that, I decided to merge all the information into each ini so that I would make sure that whenever I made a manual edit to the settings (which I always do in both ini files, btw, to be safe) those edits were not accidentally being entered into the wrong ini file (and thus never being recognized by the game).  I forget what else I did...

[Kelmych]

I think what you guys are seeing is the differences with Wrye Flash and Wrye Bash.

Although I'm not using the very latest versions, downloading those as I type, I've noticed Wyre Flash wont generate a blank patch upon start up and needs to have your previous one active. That means that patch will be updated and not be found in the overwrite.

Sometimes I've read users de-activate their bashed patches in Wrye Bash before re-building and in that case the new file will be in the overwrite but if you do have it active and re-build that patch it will be replaced in the mod that contains it.

Wrye Flash includes a blank bashed patch in the 

Mopy\templates

 folder. It can be copied to a new folder in 

Mod Organizer\mods

 and used with MO.

[Crimson13]

Okay...so now my interface is gone. That's a new one, anyone have an idea why that would happen? I can go into the oHUD MCM menu and make the interface be always on (Ammo, action point, etc..) but nothing changes.

[GrantSP]

Wrye Flash includes a blank bashed patch in the 

Mopy\templates

 folder. It can be copied to a new folder in 

Mod Organizer\mods

 and used with MO.

Yes, I know. My point is, Wrye Bash adds it automatically as part of its operation whereas Wrye Flash doesn't. That appeared to me to be what those users were seeing.

Of course you can, and I do, copy the blank esp over.

[kittyvonvita1]

Go to xEdit support forum and find the bash tagged script. It's way more useful than doing it yourself.

Are you speaking of this?

 

https://forum.step-project.com/topic/6841-wip-bash-tagger-detects-up-to-49-bash-tags/

 

It would be great not to have to invest a crazy amount of time learning another new program, but I have a feeling I'm going to have to to some extent anyhow, so thank you GalenZ!  I'll check out those when I'm ready to start messing with things outside of the F&L guide.  It's not much, most just AWOP, hopefully able to get Mojave Delight working for my gf (this is actually her account,) and a couple of other small fixes.

Edited February 21, 2015 by kittyvonvita1

[mooncarver]

I've just read this from the mod author of wrye flash:

 

 

One other thing to note for you and anyone reading this. This is the official Wrye Flash version. LOOT information and it's masterlist are not used by this version. The Bash tags that LOOT suggests have to be applied manually. The only way you would not have to add the Bash Tags suggestions from LOOT is if the same exact tags are added to the BOSS masterlist. This version of Wrye Flash still uses the BOSS masterlist to generate the Auto tag list used by this version.

I want to apologize in advance if I missed it but is this mentioned somewhere in the guide? I checked the bash tags in LOOT and Flash, they do in fact differ. So I guess all I have to do is update the bash tags in Flash by adding the missing ones and deleting the ones not listed in LOOT. is this right?

[kittyvonvita1]

Okay...so now my interface is gone. That's a new one, anyone have an idea why that would happen? I can go into the oHUD MCM menu and make the interface be always on (Ammo, action point, etc..) but nothing changes.

Are you in screenshot mode?  I haven't got a chance to mess around with Gopher's UI mods yet, but there is an option (would think it would be in oHUD) for a screenshot mode.  That will turn off all UI.

[Crimson13]

Nope, no screenshot mode. For some reason I have to pick between no interface or screwed up VATS, I can't find that works normally middle ground.

[oqhansoloqo]

Does this have anything to do with having improper font sizes set in an ini file somewhere - Crimson13, do you get poor looking text when you hover the mouse cursor over interactive objects in the game (or have text that gets kind of cut off)?  Or maybe the installation process of the UI section got messed up.  I don't know.

[Crimson13]

Nope, it's either black text VATS or no interface. I has to be the hud_main_menu.xml, I can't think of anything else that would screw with it. I followed the directions in the F&L guide and nothing in MO says anything affects the hud_main_menu.xml after oHUD (And yes it has the DARNUI patch.). It's baffling.

 

Would it be the BSA Extractor plugin or any of them? BSA Extractor is set to true and fomod installer is set to true. I dunno, I'm just throwing things out just to find anything.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Crimson13

[BurritoJustice]

Okay I'm 15 hours into my FLNV play through and something has just dawned on me. My "fade to black" effect does not work. This is with doctors/cybernetics/sex scenes etc where there is meant to be a fade to black to indicate time passing. I just lose my controls and my character stares forward but no black screen fades in. My FLNV is slightly modified but it happens with the completely stock FLNV install run from MO too. Any help would be awesome as it is niggling at me.

[Brainfever]

This is a known side effect when you are using an ENB preset. I'm not aware of any solution to this, u just get used to it I guess.