ACCEPTED Odin - Skyrim Magic Overhaul (by EnaiSiaion)

[TechAngel85]

Discussion topic:
Odin - Skyrim Magic Overhaul by EnaiSiaion
Wiki Link

Helpful patches: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/46445

Testing: Disable Modern Brawl Bug Fix, as this mod includes that.

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I'm curious as to what everyone thinks of this mod. Some things users have asked for repeatedly are overhauls for magic, perks, and more skills. We've repeatedly responded with, "we haven't found one that fits Step". Well, I've had a good read over this mod page and compared it to our Mandate. The page had me smiling at points, which meant it aligned with what I would expect something like this to be done for an "enhanced vanilla". This one seems to fit the bill for magic. It...

• ... provides bug fixes and corrections to malfunctioning aspects of the vanilla magic features/items.
• ... provides HD asset replacements in the style of the vanilla game. (from looking at the shots)
• ... improves existing magic content within consistency of the vanilla game.
• ... its new content is consistent with the game's style and lore, and isn't overpowered. (from what I can tell from reading)
• ... it's not only geared toward a specific user base. (affects all magic schools equally and consistently)

As for mod compatibility, users should remember that Step isn't as concerned with "down the line" compatibility since the Guides are now meant as complete solutions. However, we're not oblivious to the fact users will still install additional mods on top of the Guides. With that in mind, Odin is actually very compatible with other magic overhaul mods that aren't included in the SE Guide due to the Mandate.

I did have a look in xEdit to preview compatibility with the current SE mod list, and it seems to need minimal patching. Since we don't have many mods that alter these areas of the game, Odin's main conflict within our mod list is with USSEP, which it should be overwriting anyway. So a bit of patching for Elemental Staffs, CACO, and a few others. Really easy and lightweight, but will probably require becoming a master of the CR Patch; meaning users won't have the option of not installing Odin in their mod lists. With the Guides being complete solutions now, those things shouldn't matter as much, but old habits die hard. I just wanted to put that fact out there.

[DoubleYou]

Time to build another mage character I guess.... 

[joaron7]

Perk and magic overhauls would be great on the guide. There is also Mysticism which is also a "vanilla plus" overhaul like Odin, but it would probably come down to preference.

[elenhil]

I have avoided this mod as I specifically didn't want a hundred new spells mod. I was looking for something along the lines of Simple Magic Rebalance or Better Magic for a 'Vanilla plus' experience.

[TechAngel85]

9 hours ago, elenhil said:

I have avoided this mod as I specifically didn't want a hundred new spells mod. I was looking for something along the lines of Simple Magic Rebalance or Better Magic for a 'Vanilla plus' experience.

All Simple Magic (I corrected your link to the SE mod) is doing is swapping potion and clothing effects. Not much a change and leaves a lot of issues unaddressed. Better Magic isn't available for SE, but the changes made are similar to Odin's changes with an alterative approach and without adding spells. For example, cloaks in Odin grow in power/duration while in Better Magic they grow in power and size. EnaiSiaion specifically said they didn't change the size because cloak spells go through walls and you can easy end up with a large area clock that kills enemies in adjacent rooms...basically the spell gets cheesy at higher leaves. I happen to agree with Odin's approach on that and many others when comparing the two. Odin seems to be very well balanced where if something was increased or decreased in it's stats, it was done for logical reason balanced out by other changes.

It's true that Odin nearly doubles the number of spells for all schools of magic. I don't see this as an issue for two reasons. The first is to keep in mind when playing a mage build, players typically only go for one or two of these schools due to limited perks. If that Master spell is a goal, players can't spread their perk points too thin or risk not having enough points to get that Master spell. Players are simply getting a wider selection for the schools they decide to train in. The second reason is keeping in mind past games. Though limited to specific effects, Morrowind had players creating their own spells by mixing combinations of effects. Thus, the spell variation available were in the hundreds, if not thousands, of possibilities. So the number of spells in the game shouldn't really be a limiting factor.

Though doubled, that's still not as many spells as other magic overhauls add. The spells added by Odin seem to fit right inline with vanilla too. EnaiSiaion is a really good author that knows their stuff, so I'm fairly confident the added spells are Bethesda-level quality that fit perfectly into the game. This needs some testing, however, I wouldn't expect to see anything that makes me say that shouldn't be there.

[elenhil]

Sorry I mistook Simple Magic Rebalance for another mod akin to Better Magic that, too, was not available for SE. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by elenhil
typo

[Sakiri]

Odin has gone through a few nerf bats as well, hitting spells that hit too hard(Taldams scorcher was an offender) or were too effective (think some of resto got hit too).

I play with it. It doesn't add too many spells compared to other spell packs, improves vanilla spells, and all the new spells are able to be purchased, outside a couple loot only spells, so you can effectively ignore them if you'd like.

I think there might be a bug or two left, but Enai is usually spot on fixing anything that comes up that isn't due to a quirk in the engine. 

Overall, I like it, and currently have it installed.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Sakiri

[TechAngel85]

I played with this enabled through a level 12 character as a "battlemage" (magic in one hand, sword in the other) to compare the magic to normal combat; couldn't find any faults. The new spells feel like they were always part of the game, and are well integrated. Magic, overall, feels a bit more powerful, which helps to balance it with weapons. However, it's still not at powerful and doesn't kill your enemies as quickly as a weapons does, but it's better than pure vanilla. It combines very well with Vokrii.

I see no reason not to add this one.

[z929669]

Are these changes to only PC magic or PC+NPC magic?

[TechAngel85]

8 minutes ago, z929669 said:

Are these changes to only PC magic or PC+NPC magic?

Do enemies use these spells as well: This would involve adding entirely new enemies that know these spells, which would cause a conflict with basically every enemy overhaul mod. Enemies do use Odin staves they may possess, as well as the overhauled vanilla spells such as the new healing spells and improved wards. There are tools to distribute spells from your load order to enemies from your load order, like EEOS and ASIS

[z929669]

Thanks ... the 'tools' mentioned may be worth considering to balance things. I'm not typically much of a magic user in RPGs, but I like the idea of NPCs getting a boost in line with the PC to enhance the challenge.

[TechAngel85]

1 hour ago, z929669 said:

Thanks ... the 'tools' mentioned may be worth considering to balance things. I'm not typically much of a magic user in RPGs, but I like the idea of NPCs getting a boost in line with the PC to enhance the challenge.

EEOS sounds like what we need for that and it supports Odin already:

 

[z929669]

I don't do magic much in Skyrim aside for 'tools' like healing, enemy detection, telekinesis, etc. That said, I have had no issues with this mod in my general testing. Given the description, I think it's a good fit for Step in that it incorporates some vanilla-friendly fixes and essentially enhances immersion/realism. I will place this same note on the new magi-related mods we are testing for Step.

[Greg]

Note that Odin - Skyrim Magic Overhaul and Vokrii - Minimalistic Perks of Skyrim both include Modern Brawl Bug Fix.

[z929669]

1 hour ago, Greg said:

Note that Odin - Skyrim Magic Overhaul and Vokrii - Minimalistic Perks of Skyrim both include Modern Brawl Bug Fix.

Yeah, I noticed that and disabled that one while testing.