ACCEPTED aMidianBorn Caves and Mines (by CaBaL)

[phazer11]

Yes, Kelmych you're right. My point in asking is so I can have a bit of consistency when doing my compares and to try and get this thread back on the test track since I do not feel the cave textures have been definitively compared enough to where we can say one way or another which should go in S.T.E.P. as things are right now. I will be doing aMB 1k with uncompressed normals and S&R full 1k.

 

Also would one of the admins makes sure the no image limit is still good please? I just finished taking my Vanilla compares and there are 25 of them. (2 normal caves,1 mine and 2 frozen caves)

[Aiyen]

DXT5 is the more or less preferred compression since it does have the best blend between quality and file size.

Going to full lossless is almost always a waste of memory.

It is like comparing a jpg file saved at 100% quality and one at 95%. You cannot visually see any difference unless you have a really expensive monitor and know what you are looking for... but the file size difference can be rather massive.

 

For high quality the 2k x 2k at DXT 5 should be the standard. The difference between 2k and 1k normals and its compression will depend on the type of texture in question. Is it a rock or mountain that will mainly be viewed from far away or just in flashes... then it is not required with 2k normals. If it is something that is up close and personal like armor and weapons.. then 2k is very vital!

As for compression then I guess there can start to come artifacts with really detailed items at higher compression. At least I have produced a few when I tried to optimize certain armors.

[TechAngel85]

For The Beauty of Skyrim should we DDSOpt it to 1k from 2k? I have a custom file of aMB caves here with the 1k version diffuse and the 1k uncompressed normals from the 2k pack.

 

Also should I do Vanilla + X Mod, then current S.T.E.P, and then S.T.E.P. with S&R removed and X Mod substituting?

The question, for this and for a number of other mods, is how much loss in graphic quality results from using 1Kx1K vs. 2Kx2K textures and how much less actual VRAM use does this provide in the game. Most of the 2Kx2K textures in BOS are DXT1 (vs. DXT5), and the quality loss when reducing these to 1Kx1K might not be very noticeable. However, the normal maps in BOS are 2Kx2K or 4Kx4K DXT5 textures so it is likely more important to determine how to handle these since they have a significant effect on VRAM use. We might look, for example, at the differences with normal maps:

* unchanged

* DXT5 compressed at 1Kx1K

* R5G6B5 at 1Kx1K

 

BOS was selected, but there were other alternatives that were also considered quite good, so small differences in graphic quality might matter a lot.

I think the thing most have agreed upon is that for exterior textures mainly 1K is used and for interior 2K is used. This seemed to be given the "okay" by the major players here that know a lot about the RAM/VRAM limits.

Yes, Kelmych you're right. My point in asking is so I can have a bit of consistency when doing my compares and to try and get this thread back on the test track since I do not feel the cave textures have been definitively compared enough to where we can say one way or another which should go in S.T.E.P. as things are right now. I will be doing aMB 1k with uncompressed normals and S&R full 1k.

 

Also would one of the admins makes sure the no image limit is still good please? I just finished taking my Vanilla compares and there are 25 of them. (2 normal caves,1 mine and 2 frozen caves)

As a rule of thumb, no mods should be ran through DDSopt before a comparison. The majority of users aren't going to be DDSopting their mod textures. The majority that do DDSopt only do so on the Vanilla textures. Unless there is absolutely no loss in quality by running DDSopt on the mod texture. Best not do it for testing so the results won't be skewed.

[phazer11]

Ok then so I won't optimize any of them to make it fit S.T.E.P. baseline 1k. My custom aMB pack is fine since they were files provided by Cabal through his two packs. I'll be doing 2k aMB here in a minute followed by S&R and then Beauty of Skyrim, then Hectrols. After that I will be doing a "Current STEP" a full STEP install as the guide is now. STEP + X Mod where X Mod replaces S&R (for interiors) etc.

 

I'll probably be at this for another few hours. I should have them submitted before noon tomorrow. Friend called and wants me to edit his script so I'll finish the aMB compares and then head on over there to help him for a few hours tonight.

[TechAngel85]

Vanilla >> Snow & Rocks HD >> Beauty of Skyrim >> aMidianborn Caves

 

 

 

 

 

Vanilla >> Snow & Rocks HD >> aMidianborn Caves

 

Ice Caves Review

 

Snow and Rocks HD

Ground textures are similar to vanilla; however, smoother in some places. Wall textues are smoother in S&R and less reflective. In some cases looking closer to a white colored rock than ice. The rock in the ice caves is nearly identical to vanilla, but somewhat less reflective. Overall, extremely close to vanilla just smoothed out a little. Core canidate.

 

Beauty of Skyrim

This mods doesn't cover the ice caves. In fact it's identical in every aspect to S&R (I had this activated for this test), except for the ground texture at the enterance (first shot); which is more snowy, and the rock textures which are very close to vanilla like S&R. Nothing else to report since that's all this mod covers here. If accepted, it should overwrite S&R, IMO, due to the other cave textures.

 

aMidianborn Caves

Ground textures are "bumbier" than vanilla and more snow covered. Walls are darker overall, yet are much more reflective than vanilla. Overall shape of the walls are still vanilla, but they are "bumbier" as well. The rock in the ice caves are a complete divation from vanilla. They still look impressive though. They have some roughness to them; however, the "definition" is completely different from vanilla. Not for Core, but a canidate for Extended.

 

The last three shots is for reflectivity examples. Vanilla is...well, vanilla. S&R is similar to Vanilla; however, less reflective and more "rock like". aMidianborn is the opposite of S&R. It's more reflective than vanilla by at least 2x.

 

The best for Core here is S&R, IMO. The best overall is a toss-up between S&R and aMidianborn for me. I would like the vanilla level of reflectivity from both mods (one decreases it, one increases it...lol) so it's really neck and neck for me personally between the two.

 

Images added to OP.

[z929669]

This thread was going way off topic. I moved the relevant distraction to a more appropriate location.

 

Great compares Tech ... thank you!

 

... let's please put this one to bed and either convince us all that this mod is a significant improvement over vanilla under the premise of the new mandate ... or not. If not, then this thread will likely find its way into the Anthology anyway, sooner or later.

[TechAngel85]

[snip]

 

Great compares Tech ... thank you!

 

... let's please put this one to bed and either convince us all that this mod is a significant improvement over vanilla under the premise of the new mandate ... or not. If not, then this thread will likely find its way into the Anthology anyway, sooner or later.

You're most welcome. I think it's safe to say that aMidianborn is not for Core. At this point, it just needs to be decided if it's preferred over current STEP (Snow & Rocks HD) and Beauty of Skyrim for STEP:Extended or not.

[phazer11]

From my testing the only thing I can say that is "better" about Snow and Rocks HD are the ground textures which if I'm not mistaken Cabal hasn't touched yet. I'm 33% (100 compares) of the way through my 300 compares.

 

For those of you that wish a head start on the crap ton of compares...

Vanilla HRDLC + aMB 1k (with 1k uncompressed normal)

[TechAngel85]

From my testing the only thing I can say that is "better" about Snow and Rocks HD are the ground textures which if I'm not mistaken Cabal hasn't touched yet. I'm 33% (100 compares) of the way through my 300 compares.

Hold it chief. We appreciate the hard work, but that is far too many compares. You're making your job much harder than it has to be. lol I think we're opening this one back to get it finalized with what we have. If you wish to continue, by all means go ahead tho.

[z929669]

I updated the poll up front to ask people to take a look at these textures as a potential addition for STEP:Core. I think that we could post a second poll for STEP:Extended, but we shouldn't worry too much about that right now, since we are not focusing on that piece as yet ... let me see if two polls can be posted.

 

EDIT: nope, only one poll at a time. No matter, these compares we do in MT will apply for Packs going forward, so admins feel free to summarize any notes you have in the OP of testing threads for later reference.

 

Thanks to all for contributing and to CaBal for supplying his work for our shameless critique ... no offense intended if any was taken.

[TechAngel85]

From my own testing,

 

Snow & Rocks HD is better than vanilla and Beauty of Skyrim on top of that is even better. S&R is definitely Core candidate while BoS is riding the edge, IMO. aMidianborn is too far from vanilla to be considered for Core, IMO. With the issues I've seen in S&R and aMidianborn (blurry walls and ground textures), my overall choice has to be Beauty of Skyrim overwriting S&R since BoS doesn't really cover the ice caves. All-in-all, if the ground texture issues were corrected in aMidianborn it probably would have won my vote for STEP:Extended.

 

STEP:Core - S&R overwritten by BoS

STEP:Extended - Same.

[phazer11]

I'm only doing 325 compares as it's a. 5 "caves" b. a mixture of normal and frozen c. I'm doing the compares both with only HRDLC and with all STEP packages but SR (except for the SR compare). I'll do a image host compare as soon as everything is done but until then...

Links:

Vanilla

Vanilla + aMB 1k Compares

Vanilla + aMB 2k Compares

Vanilla + Snow and Rocks HD Compares

[exploiteddna]

@Michaelrw

 

Could you throw up screens for vanilla and BoS using the analogs in your post? It would be good to have those for reference, since anything that we use will need to be better than the HRDLC in terms of appearance but comparable in terms of style.

 

TIA

Not sure if you missed this Michaelrw. If you still have the saves from your shots in the OP, could you provide Vanilla and BoS from those saves and post this in the OP? Thanks! If you don't have those saves anymore let us know and we'll take them down.

 

I noticed we were missing ice cave compares so I'll be grabbing a set of those today. Actually, I'm already in the process of doing just that. :)

yeah i must have missed that.. not sure how. I should still have the saves. let me take a look and getback to you

[exploiteddna]

you must have already taken my original shots down bc i dont see them anymore and thus i dont know what saves im looking for. Let me know if you still want me to look into it or if youre satisfied with what is currently up there. (or if there is any other shots you want/need to complete this

[z929669]

you must have already taken my original shots down bc i dont see them anymore and thus i dont know what saves im looking for. Let me know if you still want me to look into it or if youre satisfied with what is currently up there. (or if there is any other shots you want/need to complete this

They were from this post. Feel free to update and I will deposit into the OP ;)