ACCEPTED aMidianBorn Caves and Mines (by CaBaL)

[TechAngel85]

you did not understand Z, or doing anything to not understand...

to try dialectical magic and macumbas leads to nowhere..in particular with me.

question in simple words:

why we make a poll if we already know what is gonna to be used in core...pardone...few already decided what's going to beused in core... and why we delete a poll when is not going in the way some (few looking at the votes) were expecting.

 

and do not tell me it's a matter of packs , because it's like to say that anything is accepted.

 

...core, base,vanilla, end of the world, teletubbies,packs...i do not care,

what i see is: i ask people to chose and when they vote i do not care about their opinion.

bit of bulgarian election imo...

do really what you want as said i could not care less...but is not transparent ,to use an euphemism.

The poll was deleted because an additional option (vanilla) was added to it after members had already voted. Therefore, not all options were available to all members at the time of their vote and; thus, the poll has been reset so the results will not be screwed. Basic statistics really.

 

As I've already stated, the poll is not "the final word" on whether a mod is accepted or not. There are a lot more to testing than voting on a poll.

[CaBaL]

angel... u can do better?do it...

how many textures you did this year?

i've been able to do this mod, you asked people what they prefer...they told you amb and poll disappeared... hell of the illusion school!

[CaBaL]

we just have to admit clearly...poll got no meaning and staff decides what to use.... totally fair for me, no problem

[TechAngel85]

angel... u can do better?do it...

how many textures you did this year?

i've been able to do this mod' date=' you asked people what they prefer...they told you amb and poll disappeared... hell of the illusion school![/quote']

Thank you. That actually says quite a lot. I'm not saying you don't do good work. Your work is actually quite good. I was just curious if you was open to suggestions.

 

we just have to admit clearly...poll got no meaning and staff decides what to use.... totally fair for me' date=' no problem[/quote']

Not completely true. It's only one of many tools we use in helping us make the decisions we make. But yes, it is not the deciding factor unless the majority of the Admins vote for one option or until we get many many more members voting.

[CaBaL]

what confuses me is that only my mod got problems..other options are perfect!and awesome!

i'm open to suggestion...but on which base of tecnical knowledge are you offering them? and why...with all this knowledge you do not see problems on other textures ...just on mine? this leaves me confused.

i'm used to say that i cannot explain my mother how to make babies...sorry to be rude and "boar" but we cannot discuss till tomorrow saying actually nothing

---

if pool results were for beauty of skyrim...poll was still there...i'm sure.

and it's ok for me,i actually did more than a mod this year...and nothing changes if these caves are used or not in core...i honestly do not even know what's used of my work currently in step...is the way to manage these choices that leaves me confused quite a lot

---

i have t make kinda 2000 textures in these days... sorry if i will not follow the discussion .

next time write it BIG... votes counts nothing are just used to know eventually people opinion and anytime any decision could be changed.

that's transparent.

[z929669]

@Michaelrw

 

Could you throw up screens for vanilla and BoS using the analogs in your post? It would be good to have those for reference, since anything that we use will need to be better than the HRDLC in terms of appearance but comparable in terms of style.

 

TIA

[TechAngel85]

what confuses me is that only my mod got problems..other options are perfect!and awesome!

i'm open to suggestion...but on which base of tecnical knowledge are you offering them? and why...with all this knowledge you do not see problems on other textures ...just on mine? this leaves me confused.

i'm used to say that i cannot explain my mother how to make babies...sorry to be rude and "boar" but we cannot discuss till tomorrow saying actually nothing

---

if pool results were for beauty of skyrim...poll was still there...i'm sure.

and it's ok for me,i actually did more than a mod this year...and nothing changes if these caves are used or not in core...i honestly do not even know what's used of my work currently in step...is the way to manage these choices that leaves me confused quite a lot

---

i have t make kinda 2000 textures in these days... sorry if i will not follow the discussion .

next time write it BIG... votes counts nothing are just used to know eventually people opinion and anytime any decision could be changed.

that's transparent.

I actually pointed out, on a later post, issues will all the textures: https://forum.step-project.com/showthread.php?tid=3057&pid=46272#pid46272

 

STEP:Core and STEP:Extended are still new to most member as we've not made any official announcement on it. Think of STEP:Core as an "Extended Vanilla". To make it into Core a mod has to basically be Vanilla or very close to Vanilla without significant changes. Core will rarely change and it's being designed like that because it will be the base for all Packs. STEP:Extended is the official STEP Pack and will have the reminder of the mods that didn't make it into Core.

 

STEP uses your armor and weapons texture pack; Book of Silence. I can't think of any others that are included as of right now.

[Smile44]

To be honest I don't think any of the other options are better than HRDLC - in core STEP mods should not be added just for the sake of it. AMB is different to vanilla and is my preference because they look and in essence feel more like caves.

 

My point is that if vanilla is as good or better than mods put forward to improve on vanilla while staying true to vanilla then surely it makes sense to stick with vanilla. After all less is more as they say. SRO was so popular because it improved on the vanilla look whilst staying true to vanilla design (because it was vanilla design essentially). Meshes and textures should only be added to CORE if they repair or fix or etc... mistakes, errors or poorly rendered meshes and textures from Bethesda.

 

This approach could and probably should be applied to every aspect of CORE STEP in order to literally present a fixed and improved version of the vanilla game and nothing more. This would greatly simplify. The textures used in STEP and SR look amazing but are they superior in every aspect - I expect not. The design of Skyrim has always been good, just the execution has lacked consistency.

 

Users can choose to change the way Skyrim looks by using textures that they like e.g. AMB on top of a basically fixed Skyrim. This was my understanding of the aim for 2.3 and IMHO that idea is perhaps being lost amongst all this discussion. BoS is too bland Hectoral is too busy and both are different to Vanilla but neither are clearly better than HRDLC in either look or feel just different and so neither should be in CORE STEP, for the same reasons put forward against this mod.

 

If it ain't broke don't fix it, but if it is then that's where to STEP in (forgive the crappy pun).

 

:)

[phazer11]

I highly recommend and prefer you try them out in-game before you vote! This is a requirement for all Mod Testers and should be for Admin as well so a proper analysis is done by the STEP Team.

 

Geez man you act like we're some wet behind the ears snot nosed brats or something.

 

@Tech and Cabal can you both please play nice?

@Cabal no one is dissing your textures in fact most of us like them. Tech is bringing up some suggestions for the ground textures that he has noticed aren't quite up to your usual standards and is only wishing to give you constructive critisism. I admit he has seemed to make quite a few back-handed compliments or at times seemed to be trashing it but I don't think anyone here thinks you or your work is bad/trashy and only want to see you improve. In fact if you look at sheer volume you have many more mods/textures as part of STEP:Core than a great majority of mod makers and this I would take as a compliment. There is no need to resort to angry posts.

 

@Tech since I and others have likely had it with the tone of your comments could you please I don't know... wait before posting something or maybe have someone else read through it for tone as I really don't think you mean for some of your comments to be so nit picky and mean but to some of us it comes across that way and these

"discussions"

that you and Cabal are having aren't constructive. I admit your last two or three posts have been like night vs day in comparison to your earlier posts in a good way

 

Anyways I'll be giving this and the other cave mods the royal treatment here soon as none of the other compares are up to my anal standards. There will be Vanilla, HRDLC, Hectrols, S&R, BoS (am I missing any?)

@Zed thanks for removing the image limit that thing was a pain in my ass when I did the Pondfish Retexture compares. >V<

[TechAngel85]

To be honest I don't think any of the other options are better than HRDLC - in core STEP mods should not be added just for the sake of it. AMB is different to vanilla and is my preference because they look and in essence feel more like caves.

 

My point is that if vanilla is as good or better than mods put forward to improve on vanilla while staying true to vanilla then surely it makes sense to stick with vanilla. After all less is more as they say. SRO was so popular because it improved on the vanilla look whilst staying true to vanilla design (because it was vanilla design essentially). Meshes and textures should only be added to CORE if they repair or fix or etc... mistakes, errors or poorly rendered meshes and textures from Bethesda.

 

This approach could and probably should be applied to every aspect of CORE STEP in order to literally present a fixed and improved version of the vanilla game and nothing more. This would greatly simplify. The textures used in STEP and SR look amazing but are they superior in every aspect - I expect not. The design of Skyrim has always been good, just the execution has lacked consistency.

 

Users can choose to change the way Skyrim looks by using textures that they like e.g. AMB on top of a basically fixed Skyrim. This was my understanding of the aim for 2.3 and IMHO that idea is perhaps being lost amongst all this discussion. BoS is too bland Hectoral is too busy and both are different to Vanilla but neither are clearly better than HRDLC in either look or feel just different and so neither should be in CORE STEP, for the same reasons put forward against this mod.

 

If it ain't broke don't fix it, but if it is then that's where to STEP in (forgive the crappy pun).

 

:)

I think you tapped into Z's brain waves. lol

[TechAngel85]

I highly recommend and prefer you try them out in-game before you vote! This is a requirement for all Mod Testers and should be for Admin as well so a proper analysis is done by the STEP Team.

Geez man you act like we're some wet behind the ears snot nosed brats or something.

 

@Tech and Cabal can you both please play nice?

@Cabal no one is dissing your textures in fact most of us like them. Tech is bringing up some suggestions for the ground textures that he has noticed aren't quite up to your usual standards and is only wishing to give you constructive critisism. I admit he has seemed to make quite a few back-handed compliments or at times seemed to be trashing it but I don't think anyone here thinks you or your work is bad/trashy and only want to see you improve. In fact if you look at sheer volume you have many more mods/textures as part of STEP:Core than a great majority of mod makers and this I would take as a compliment. There is no need to resort to angry posts.

 

@Tech since I and others have likely had it with the tone of your comments could you please I don't know... wait before posting something or maybe have someone else read through it for tone as I really don't think you mean for some of your comments to be so nit picky and mean but to some of us it comes across that way and these

"discussions"

that you and Cabal are having aren't constructive. I admit your last two or three posts have been like night vs day in comparison to your earlier posts in a good way

 

Anyways I'll be giving this and the other cave mods the royal treatment here soon as none of the other compares are up to my anal standards. There will be Vanilla, HRDLC, Hectrols, S&R, BoS (am I missing any?)

@Zed thanks for removing the image limit that thing was a pain in my ass when I did the Pondfish Retexture compares. >V

We're playing nice. There is nothing wrong with debate and discussion and I don't think either of us it taking it as an insult to the other. I know I'm not and nothing in CaBal's replies leads me to think he is either. In fact, I gather he's an easy going guy from his replies.

 

Exactly, constructive criticism. Nothing trashy about CaBal's textures at all. I love the majority of them! (I did not sense any anger from CaBal's post btw)

 

I understand what you are saying here. I'll be the first to admit that I'm blunt and honest and some people simply aren't used to dealing with such personalities in this day and age. If I'm "nit picking" any mod, then it's only for the construction of the review. I don't hold back when posting my reviews; however, I never use harsh language to indicate that I am being "mean" because being "mean" or "offensive" is never my intent. Holding back in a review of any mod doesn't do any good in any way. If I find any issues, I'll call them out as I see them. I would expect this from all Mod Testers as well because being completely open and honest will lead to better judgement in mods being tested for STEP; whether they're accepted or not. I will say, I never have any "tone" or mean any offense when I post anything. If I think it'll spark any argument that isn't constructive debate then I simply don't post. With all this said, I can't really change my personality and it comes through in the way I type and explain things. I try my best to be careful in the wording, but something there is no other way to say something than to just say it. I often read WilliamImm and other's posts as harsh as well, but rarely point it out because I know my own personality shines through in my posts just as everyone else does on this forum. I'm in management in RL and am quite loved by all my employees (or so they tell me) so I can understand that's it might be difficult to read my intent in any post without knowing me in person. My intent is never ill-willed.

 

Hectrol, S&R, and BoS has already gone through the testing train and BoS came out on top. ( https://forum.step-project.com/showthread.php?tid=1351 ) Unless Z chimes in and wants the other included here, I think it's safe to just do Vanilla (HRDLCs can be included in Vanilla), STEP (S&R), BoS, and aMbianborn Caves.

[z929669]

Yes, Vanilla = HRDLC!

 

We all know that vanilla (console ed) needs improvement

[TechAngel85]

@Michaelrw

 

Could you throw up screens for vanilla and BoS using the analogs in your post? It would be good to have those for reference, since anything that we use will need to be better than the HRDLC in terms of appearance but comparable in terms of style.

 

TIA

Not sure if you missed this Michaelrw. If you still have the saves from your shots in the OP, could you provide Vanilla and BoS from those saves and post this in the OP? Thanks! If you don't have those saves anymore let us know and we'll take them down.

 

I noticed we were missing ice cave compares so I'll be grabbing a set of those today. Actually, I'm already in the process of doing just that. :)

[phazer11]

For The Beauty of Skyrim should we DDSOpt it to 1k from 2k? I have a custom file of aMB caves here with the 1k version diffuse and the 1k uncompressed normals from the 2k pack.

 

Also should I do Vanilla + X Mod, then current S.T.E.P, and then S.T.E.P. with S&R removed and X Mod substituting?

[Kelmych]

The question, for this and for a number of other mods, is how much loss in graphic quality results from using 1Kx1K vs. 2Kx2K textures and how much less actual VRAM use does this provide in the game. Most of the 2Kx2K textures in BOS are DXT1 (vs. DXT5), and the quality loss when reducing these to 1Kx1K might not be very noticeable. However, the normal maps in BOS are 2Kx2K or 4Kx4K DXT5 textures so it is likely more important to determine how to handle these since they have a significant effect on VRAM use. We might look, for example, at the differences with normal maps:

* unchanged

* DXT5 compressed at 1Kx1K

* R5G6B5 at 1Kx1K

 

BOS was selected, but there were other alternatives that were also considered quite good, so small differences in graphic quality might matter a lot.