SKYRIMLE Harvest Overhaul (by Omeletter)

[Omeletter]

Hello, Omeletter here. A lot of the things have been said here already, but...

 

Firstly, I'd like to clear up the speculations about the ingredient yield and how "random" it is. Some wild figures have been thrown about, e.g. 20 snowberries, 15 mountain flowers, etc, etc. Harvest Overhaul was designed to be mainly realistic/immersive - it is meant to simulate the amount of ingredient harvested from the game model, but with a hint of game balance to it. 60% realism, 40% balance is how I'd put it. When making this mod, I looked at the model/size of the ingredient, the plant, and the plant after harvesting. For example, mushrooms come in 3's, so in most cases, you can only get a maximum of 2 (6) or 3 (9) from a cluster, depending on the source it is harvested from. Cotton comes in a small bunch, so you can only get a maximum of 3-4 from a plant as well, rather than 10.

 

The chances aren't truly "random" as people put it. You wouldn't get 1 ingredient one time, and 12 another. You can download the Excel file with all the minimum-maximum amounts, and also the chances of getting the ingredients at the Optional file section. I decided to simulate the chance of a plant being unsuitable for alchemy, e.g. wilted flowers, by setting up a chance on all the ingredients that the plant can yield but 1 that you get no matter what, so you can't get 0, however that is (probably) bound to change in the next version. Each plant has its own chance - I looked at every plant instead of sticking a 50% chance on them just because. Normally, this results in you getting somewhere around the middle of the possible yield amounts, maybe less, maybe more. You'd be lucky if you got all 12 from a big cluster of mountain flowers.

 

Yes, it does make alchemy easier so it does change the balance in some small ways. However, the mod does plug in the massive hole that is Skyrim's harvesting system of getting 1 no matter what. At least in this game we actually see the ingredient being harvested, unlike Oblivion or Morrowind. It also allows you to level your alchemy skill without resorting to making extra expensive potions involving Giant's Toes, Wheat, and Butterfly wings that cost around 600 septims at minimum, but have no value if you are actually going to drink them. Like many have said, it's possible to turn the alchemy levelling down by changing a few settings in the uncapper to make this mod balance well with vanilla. Also, numerous people have requested a toned down version which will be provided and the whole mod will undergo balance changes anyway, so this mod may very well be a great addition to STEP's core, although I'm not the one involved with STEP so perhaps the future patches and versions of this mod will tell.

 

There is also something interesting I found in the CK while making this mod. Each plant has a seasonal % of failure to harvest it. E.g. I can make it so some plants are only harvestable in the summer, and in the winter they only have a 20% chance. I did not bother with that because Skyrim doesn't have seasons - you never see Falkreath being covered in snow and that's a shame, but perhaps this is still a nice thing to put in the mod, maybe for balance or immersion. I'd like your opinions on this.

 

Dragonborn compatibility - as soon as Dragonborn is on sale, I'll get it. I don't want to play Skyrim anymore, at least for now.

 

I have also made a small optional addition to this mod called Harvest Overhaul - Creatures. This is merely a few balancing changes regarding animals, e.g. removing money and clutter, and also fixing a few values regarding the amount of claws, tusks, meat, etc you get, so it is actually worth hunting animals for their loot. Although this is not a massive, in depth mod - I'd love to have the ability to kill a deer and butcher it, taking everything; bones, different cuts of meat, antlers, hide, etc. this is a nice fix to make hunting feel better, more useful, more profitable. That is a great addition to STEP's core, if it doesn't have mods that do so already.

[Besidilo]

Perhaps slightly decreasing the Alchemy skill gain from harvesting and increasing the ingredient requirements for making potions would be a good idea. I have to say, I haven't tested Alchemy (or this mod for that matter) enough to voice my opinion, but the mod looks very promising, especially since it randomises the amount of ingredients that are harvested at any time.

[MontyMM]

I would go along with this idea of an increased harvest coupled with a balanced increase in alchemy requirements. Although it could be argued to be a pointless quid pro quo increasing the mod load, I do find the amounts involved in ingredients to be strikingly odd, enough to draw attention to the "game" for a moment. I would use this if so balanced.

[torminater]

This would mean that we'ld need to think about compatibility patches if we were to include this in the base STEP install and the mod gets the alchemy skill tweaks added...

[MontyMM]

Thinking about it, in my ideal world (and i'm not suggesting that the author rushes out and does a ton more work) this would form part of a larger overhaul of the whole alchemy system. I would love to have an overhaul that goes right back to the drawing board on the recipes, amounts, levelling, and a more sensible scheme tying the nature of potions to the difficulty of acquiring the requisite ingredients. Just my wishlist on this subject.

[TechAngel85]

Thanks for you posting, Omeletter! If you'll PM Z or Farlo on Nexus to prove that you are you and not someone impersonating you, they'll give the you the great and powerful, Mod Author badge. :) I will still use the mod regardless of the "unbalanced" alchemy that may result because for me it make alchemy worth pursuing again. For balancing all we would need to do is ask one of the mod authors that provide leveling overhauls to make a compatibility patch with alchemy turned down a little bit. Personally, I use SkyRealism - Balanced Perk Trees for my overhaul on that. MTichenor is a really nice guy and might be will to do that for us. As far as alchemy he's done this:

Alchemy Tree is now radial, with 3 paths: Physician, Poisoner, and Experimentor.

• Alchemist (0/5): Potions and poisons you make are 20% stronger.
• Poisoner: Poisons you mix are 25% more effective. Requirements: Alchemy 20, Alchemist.
• Concentrated Poison: Poisons applied to weapons last for twice as many hits. Requirements: Alchemy 40, Poisoner.
• Experimenter (0/3): Eating an ingredient reveals first 2/3/4 effects. Requirements: Alchemy 20, Alchemist.
• Green Thumb: Two ingredients are gathered from plants. Requirements: Alchemy 50, Experimenter.
• Physician: Potions you mix that restore Health, Magicka or Stamina are 25% more powerful. Requirements: Alchemy 20, Alchemist.
• Benefactor: Potions you mix with beneficial effects have an additional 25% greater magnitude. Requirements: Alchemy 40, Physician.
• Snakeblood: 50% resistance to all poisons. Requirements: Alchemy 70, Green Thumb, Benefactor, or Concentrated Poison.
• Purity: All negative effects are removed from created potions, and all positive effects are removed from created poisons. Requirements: Alchemy 100, Snakeblood.

[kryptopyr]

Personally, I don't find this mod to be unbalanced. I guess I can see how it could be, but I don't find myself making any more potions than I did before. What I do find is that I don't spend the entire trip from city to city zigzagging from one plant to another as I'm traveling down the road. Instead what happens is that I'll stop to harvest only when I spot a particularly choice looking clump of plants, but otherwise, I feel that I enjoy walking around and exploring Skyrim more without having to stop and gather every single plant that I pass. This feels much more realistic to me and is a huge improvement to the game dynamics.

 

I suppose if you're still stopping to harvest every plant in sight, then alchemy might quickly become unbalanced... but to me this mod balances gameplay by reducing the time spent harvesting relative to other activities, while alchemy is no more or less unbalanced than it was before.

[TechAngel85]

Personally, I don't find this mod to be unbalanced. I guess I can see how it could be, but I don't find myself making any more potions than I did before. What I do find is that I don't spend the entire trip from city to city zigzagging from one plant to another as I'm traveling down the road. Instead what happens is that I'll stop to harvest only when I spot a particularly choice looking clump of plants, but otherwise, I feel that I enjoy walking around and exploring Skyrim more without having to stop and gather every single plant that I pass. This feels much more realistic to me and is a huge improvement to the game dynamics.

 

I suppose if you're still stopping to harvest every plant in sight, then alchemy might quickly become unbalanced... but to me this mod balances gameplay by reducing the time spent harvesting relative to other activities, while alchemy is no more or less unbalanced than it was before.

Same here. Not having to spend hours harvesting to make potions and actually playing the gaming is the improvement from this mod. I end up with a ton of potions anyway from looting, but alchemy is just much more useful with this mod installed because harvesting is not longer a chore. Before this mod I found myself actually going on harvesting "runs" for the ingredient. Now it's just more incorporated into the whole experience so it's not taking away from the rest of the game.

[z929669]

Personally, I don't find this mod to be unbalanced. I guess I can see how it could be, but I don't find myself making any more potions than I did before. What I do find is that I don't spend the entire trip from city to city zigzagging from one plant to another as I'm traveling down the road. Instead what happens is that I'll stop to harvest only when I spot a particularly choice looking clump of plants, but otherwise, I feel that I enjoy walking around and exploring Skyrim more without having to stop and gather every single plant that I pass. This feels much more realistic to me and is a huge improvement to the game dynamics.

 

I suppose if you're still stopping to harvest every plant in sight, then alchemy might quickly become unbalanced... but to me this mod balances gameplay by reducing the time spent harvesting relative to other activities, while alchemy is no more or less unbalanced than it was before.

Same here. Not having to spend hours harvesting to make potions and actually playing the gaming is the improvement from this mod. I end up with a ton of potions anyway from looting, but alchemy is just much more useful with this mod installed because harvesting is not longer a chore. Before this mod I found myself actually going on harvesting "runs" for the ingredient. Now it's just more incorporated into the whole experience so it's not taking away from the rest of the game.

To both of these valid opinions: Any professional in a trade must spend a major chunk of their waking hours engaging in the activities of that trade, with the majority of their time spent "in the field".

 

Hence the term "alchemist" versus the terms "minstrel" or "ranger" or "barbarian" or "knight" or "wizard" ...

 

The point is that some of us enjoy the respite of plant-hunting as a valid goal of exploration, and I personally like the challenge of alchemy with the possibility of being "powerful" in these terms ;)

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@ Monty

I agree that alchemy, like all of Skyrim's leveling subsystem could use a complete overhaul, and this mod is currently addressing a single component of that.

 

@Omeletter

I like how you are thinking, and revision to vanilla alchemy is needed IMO. However the purpose of STEP is to enhance the vanilla game rather than change it much, so that is why I recommend this and other mods effecting the game mechanics to be compiled into a Pack (which is sort of like a mini STEP overhaul of sorts).

 

Besidilo's idea makes sense, because you need to be able to convert aliquots of harvested ingredients into fractions so that they do not exist 1:1. However, it may be better to use actual decimals rather than increase all of the components of dependent systems.

 

I really enjoy facing the dilemma of deciding whether to use an ingredient to make a potion or to sell it (i.e., very valuable ingredients). Ingredients should be valued according to their properties and modified by their rarity, so those void salts should have the potential to create a very desirable effect to the tune of the effect's worth in gold.

[DanielCoffey]

I believe this now has DG and DB support and could be reconsidered?

[rootsrat]

We never really denied this mod - we'd rather decided it should be part of one of the STEP packs rather than part of main STEP guide.

[Octopuss]

This mod definitely makes ClamsDropPearls redundant.

Reading from latest (today) changelog, it says:

Redid how pearls are collected. Now each clam and oyster has a chance for either type of pearl,   but you can never get more than one pearl per. Pearl chances changed accordingly.

 

Kinda confirms it.

Just thought someone who doesn't just run STEP might find this useful.

[oqhansoloqo]

Harvest Overhaul - Creatures (HOC):  I'm not an ace at TES5Edit, but there seems to be a conflict with Skyrim Coin Replacer (SCR).  Does HOC remove the harolds and put back normal gold coins you get from Draugr?  Also, it looks like creating a bashed patch ends up sticking coins back up the @$$es of all the animals in Skyrim again when you kill them.  Also, does HOC mess up a keyword that Complete Crafting Overhaul (CCO) gives to Elk Hide?  Also, I can't tell what the bashed patch is doing in regards to Hearthfires and HOC.

 

Harvest Overhaul (HO): I use a mod called Skyrim Immersive Creatures (SIC), and it looks like there is a conflict between HO and SIC regarding random spider spawns when looting spider egg sacs.  Also, what is the deal with some of the differences between HO and the various USKPs?

 

I'm just SO confused with trying to figure out how TES5Edit works to be able to rectify mod conflicts.  I wouldn't mind editing the Harvest Overhaul .ESPs or make patches for them if I knew exactly what the hell the changes I was making actually did.

[TechAngel85]

I don't use this mod anymore...completely forgot about it until now actually. I liked it quite a bit but it made alchemy super easy. I don't know about any conflicts.

[oqhansoloqo]

What about the Creature module of the mod - did you ever try that out?  What I like about it is that it removes money loot from animals.  That author states that he never liked the idea of always being able to pull septims from a bear's ass (as an example).  LOL - I agree with that.  The other part of it that I like is that it makes creature loot make sense in that some of the vanilla items normally can never be looted from one of the creatures that the item is supposedly from.  Examples: with the mod installed a troll skull can actually be looted from a dead troll, spriggan sap is another one - you can actually get it from a dead spriggan, etc...  There is also an auxiliary MCM enabled option to include extra ingredients (and extra recipes) in creatures that a are not found in the vanilla game.  I do not enable that though.

 

I kind of consider the mod a fairly lightweight way to make creature loot make sense - so basically I find the creature module to "fix" more than the base harvest overhaul module and that is my main purpose for considering using these mods.