Step SkyrimSE Patches (by Step Modifications)

[Elaura]

Thanks so much!

[CorneliusC]

On another note, regarding Dragon Priests Masks, specificially the armor record for 'Otar', should the WACCF change (from heavy to light armor) for this mask not be reflected in or forwarded into the 'Step Patch - CR - WACCF' patch (which is the last record on the right in the screenshot)? The appropriate keywords from WACCF are already forwarded, is the general flag for the armor type just a title (which you would also see in game) or still relevant for the change in effect?

Edited September 9, 2023 by CorneliusC

[Mousetick]

36 minutes ago, CorneliusC said:

On another note, regarding Dragon Priests Masks, specificially the armor record for 'Otar', should the WACCF change (from heavy to light armor) for this mask not be reflected in or forwarded into the 'Step Patch - CR - WACCF' patch (which is the last record on the right in the screenshot)? The appropriate keywords from WACCF are already forwarded, is the general flag for the armor type just a title (which you would also see in game) or still relevant for the change in effect?

Armor Type is used with Light Armor or Heavy Armor skills. Wearing a piece of Light Armor in combat increases the Light Armor skill, and its armor rating is scaled based on the Light Armor skill. Wearing a piece of Clothing does not affect, and is not affected by, skills.

Armor keywords are used by perks, among other things.

All changes from WACCF should be forwarded.

 

[CorneliusC]

1 hour ago, Mousetick said:

Armor Type is used with Light Armor or Heavy Armor skills. Wearing a piece of Light Armor in combat increases the Light Armor skill, and its armor rating is scaled based on the Light Armor skill. Wearing a piece of Clothing does not affect, and is not affected by, skills.

Armor keywords are used by perks, among other things.

All changes from WACCF should be forwarded.

All true, thank you. My actual question was more of a sidenote, whether the general flag in the record would appear as a subtitle in the object's description in game and therefore would be annoying if showing the wrong armor type, as in this case.

[Mousetick]

17 minutes ago, CorneliusC said:

All true, thank you. My actual question was more of a sidenote, whether the general flag in the record would appear as a subtitle in the object's description in game and therefore would be annoying if showing the wrong armor type, as in this case.

I don't know what the vanilla game does, but SkyUI (and derivatives) use keywords for many things. For example, the Amulet of Articulation has Armor Type = Clothing but is displayed in inventory as Type = Amulet, Class = Jewelry, with an Amulet icon. I don't know what information SkyUI uses for Light vs. Heavy armor in inventory and item card. You should try with the CR Patch bug and see how it looks

The fact that the Armor Type is wrong and inconsistent with the keywords is pretty bad. This should be fixed. Then you won't have to worry about whether it's displayed incorrectly in the UI

[CorneliusC]

1 hour ago, Mousetick said:

The fact that the Armor Type is wrong and inconsistent with the keywords is pretty bad. This should be fixed. Then you won't have to worry about whether it's displayed incorrectly in the UI

I corrected this in my patch more or less the instant i stumbled upon it, but true, this should be fixed. I also wonder if the dragon priest masks should have any warmth attributes, which this particular one doesn't have ...

1 hour ago, Mousetick said:

I don't know what the vanilla game does, but SkyUI (and derivatives) use keywords for many things. For example, the Amulet of Articulation has Armor Type = Clothing but is displayed in inventory as Type = Amulet, Class = Jewelry, with an Amulet icon. I don't know what information SkyUI uses for Light vs. Heavy armor in inventory and item card. You should try with the CR Patch bug and see how it looks

The mentioned general flag in the record not only functions as a subtitle in the inventory description (SkyUI), but also determines the choice of icon for the object and it's class description, and further seems to specificially set the armor class as well, meaning set as 'heavy armor' the object will not conribute to any light armor perks and so on.

[Mousetick]

17 minutes ago, CorneliusC said:

The mentioned general flag in the record not only functions as a subtitle in the inventory description (SkyUI), but also determines the choice of icon for the object and it's class description, and further seems to specificially set the armor class as well,

Thanks, that's useful info.

17 minutes ago, CorneliusC said:

meaning set as 'heavy armor' the object will not conribute to any light armor perks and so on.

No. Armor perks are based on keywords. Take a look in xEdit at Unhindered [PERK:00051B1C] (renamed 'Light Armor Training' in Vokrii), or Custom Fit [PERK:00051B1B]  ('Light Armor Fit' in Vokrii) for example. All the conditions are based on armor keywords, not armor type.

23 minutes ago, CorneliusC said:

I also wonder if the dragon priest masks should have any warmth attributes, which this particular one doesn't have ...

Warmth rating is added for specific armor/clothing pieces in Update.esm for Survival Mode. WACCF forwards them. If there is no warmth keyword, then it's done on purpose by Bethesda, and WACCF didn't think it needed fixing. I don't know what the default warmth rating is when none is specified.

[CorneliusC]

48 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

No. Armor perks are based on keywords. Take a look in xEdit at Unhindered [PERK:00051B1C] (renamed 'Light Armor Training' in Vokrii), or Custom Fit [PERK:00051B1B]  ('Light Armor Fit' in Vokrii) for example. All the conditions are based on armor keywords, not armor type.

Well, it directly influenced / changed the armor rating with the Vokrii perks i had activated on my character in the save loaded, 0 - Light Armor Mastery (Armor rating of Light Armor pieces increased by 1% per level of Light Armor), and 30 - Light Armor Fit (Armor rating of Light Armor pieces increased by 15% if wearing all Light Armor).

51 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

I don't know what the default warmth rating is when none is specified.

As far as i could see, default warmth rating for any armor piece without specificially adding a keyword or another value is zero.

[Mousetick]

51 minutes ago, CorneliusC said:

Well, it directly influenced / changed the armor rating with the Vokrii perks i had activated on my character in the save loaded, 0 - Light Armor Mastery (Armor rating of Light Armor pieces increased by 1% per level of Light Armor), and 30 - Light Armor Fit (Armor rating of Light Armor pieces increased by 15% if wearing all Light Armor).

Exactly! I was basically saying the same thing, and I completely agree with you but I'm very confused at the same time  Earlier you said:

2 hours ago, CorneliusC said:

further seems to specificially set the armor class as well, meaning set as 'heavy armor' the object will not conribute to any light armor perks and so on.

But now you're saying it did contribute to light armor perks...

Which is correct. Don't you think it's wrong/strange that a Heavy Armor mask influenced your Light Armor perks?

This is a bad bug because, due to the Amor Type / Armor Keywords discrepancy, a Heavy Armor player wearing the mask would have Heavy Armor skills applied, but not some Heavy Armor perks. Or in your case, a Light Armor player would have Heavy Armor skills wastefully applied, and Light Amor perks applied, even though it's a piece of Heavy Armor. It's very confusing. It's pretty bad, but not too bad, since it's a unique item obtained from a big boss that not many players would encounter.

[CorneliusC]

28 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

Which is correct. Don't you think it's wrong/strange that a Heavy Armor mask influenced your Light Armor perks?

My apologies. I think i made it more confusing than it is. We were more or less saying the same thing. My ingame tests with adding the mask via console and only changíng this one 'general flag' confirmed that the flag changed a lot more than just a title/object description, so when it was set to 'heavy armor', but with light armor keywords, of course none of the light armor perks would function.

This specific mask is one of two masks WACCF changes for balance reasons, so when using WACCF the WACCF patch needs to forward this, as you said, whereas when not using WACCF, the mask would stay as originally defined as heavy armor.

Edited September 9, 2023 by CorneliusC