GUIDE Fear and Loathing in New Vegas - Feedback

[Kelmych]

I have a copy of version 1.5.1.1 of the Bash Tag script I got in July. I've been using it to generate tags for Fallout 3 mods so I can make a page with these tags.

[GrantSP]

Unless @fireundubh has an explicit licence document stating otherwise in his repo (I'm pretty sure he doesn't), you can host a copy anywhere.

[Mikaal]

I have a little suggestion for the guide. I think you need the "FNVLODGen Resources" and the "NMC LOD texture fix" after you created the LODs. Just copy it in the LOD folder and the esp is mergeable!
 
EDIT: Good to see, that someone is working on the guide.
 
EDIT2: Here is a link to Generate Bashtags Script: https://copy.com/zvGWYUXWFdThLaDX

Edited September 19, 2015 by Mikaal

[oqhansoloqo]

I have a little suggestion for the guide. I think you need the "FNVLODGen Resources" and the "NMC LOD texture fix" after you created the LODs. Just copy it in the LOD folder and the esp is mergeable!

 

I'm rather confused with the FLVLODGen's Nexus page general instructions though, for in there it mentions installing the "FNVLODGen Resources" prior to running the executable (and the description for that file package mentions it being required for proper LOD generation).  But then in the instructions for users of Mod Organizer it mentions nothing about the "FNVLODGen Resources" package whatsoever.  So I am uncertain exactly what procedure is the proper one.  Can someone detail this for me so that I can make appropriate edits to the guide?

 

EDIT: Good to see, that someone is working on the guide.

 

I wish I didn't feel obligated to.  I'd rather let someone else do it.

 

EDIT2: Here is a link to Generate Bashtags Script: https://copy.com/zvGWYUXWFdThLaDX

 

Nice.  I will use this as a link in the guide instructions.

[oqhansoloqo]

So, today I removed the Glowing Ghouls plugin from the guide.  The plugin was causing serious issues, and it had been recognized as such on the FCO Nexus page as well as by STEP members.  Perhaps it will be fixed in a new version of FCO, but for now it has to go...

 

I also added a very important new section to the Post Installation Checklist on generating bash tags.  Please let me know if the directions are incorrect in any way.  I'm pretty sure they are spot-on though.  Much thanks to Mikaal for supplying a link to the xEdit script.

 

EDIT: Question I have about bash tags - apparently WF combines the plugin header bash tag list with LOOT bash tag list for each mod, unless the tags are manually entered for a mod... My question is, can it hurt a bashed patch to have extra improper bash tags placed by LOOT onto a plugin combined into the bashed patch?

 

EDIT2:  The reason I ask this is because I notice that LOOT adds some extra bash tags to some mods that the Generate Bash Tags script does not.  I'm thinking that this is an issue.

[Hackerpcs]

 

 September 17, 2015

Updated many other mod descriptions to display the latest versions (a few are currently still outdated).

Which are these so we can update them?

 

Also better use the exact same link as above for bash script, one in the guide does not work

Edited September 19, 2015 by Hackerpcs

[oqhansoloqo]

Which are these so we can update them?

 

There were a lot... I specifically mentioned a couple mods in the changelog where extra files were added to the instructions or the instructions for installation changed (version may not have even increased), but for all the other mods that are now higher versions I suggest you use MO update feature to show you which mods are old versions and then read guide notes while installating to make sure you don't miss important info.  Remember to re-run the Bash Tag Generator on the updated plugins...

 

EDIT: The link in the guide works for me.  That one is the updated link.

[oqhansoloqo]

I have a little suggestion for the guide. I think you need the "FNVLODGen Resources" and the "NMC LOD texture fix" after you created the LODs. Just copy it in the LOD folder and the esp is mergeable!

 

I just realized that Poco Bueno overwrites the only LOD texture of NMC that the NMC LOD texture fix covers, so I tend to think that that file is not needed when following the guide.  Am I wrong?

 

The FNVLODGen Resources pack seems important though, on the other hand.  My biggest question with that is... should it be placed in the load order between the vanilla files and NMC, so that NMC overwrites it?  Or, should it be placed after NMC, so that it overwrites NMC?  I only guessed that it should be placed between, since I imagine that the purpose of it is to fix vanilla files, not NMC's files.  Is this correct? 

[Hackerpcs]

There were a lot... I specifically mentioned a couple mods in the changelog where extra files were added to the instructions or the instructions for installation changed (version may not have even increased), but for all the other mods that are now higher versions I suggest you use MO update feature to show you which mods are old versions and then read guide notes while installating to make sure you don't miss important info.  Remember to re-run the Bash Tag Generator on the updated plugins...

 

EDIT: The link in the guide works for me.  That one is the updated link.

 

https://i.imgur.com/nAj0syl.png

Not all mods have correct versions but install date and it doesn't work very well. Next time you update them please make a list on updated plugins

[oqhansoloqo]

EssArrBee didn't mention whenever he updated versions of mods unless instructions changed.  New versions just appeared often in the guide.  When he was actively updating, I never updated mods in my mod configuration until I saw that he updated the guide.  I didn't list the mods in the changelog because I've been trying to follow the way he had done it in the past.  If you had already updated mods, well, then I'm sorry...  But like I said, I mentioned all the mods in the changelog where installation instructions changed.

[oqhansoloqo]

I just realized that Poco Bueno overwrites the only LOD texture of NMC that the NMC LOD texture fix covers, so I tend to think that that file is not needed when following the guide.  Am I wrong?

 

The FNVLODGen Resources pack seems important though, on the other hand.  My biggest question with that is... should it be placed in the load order between the vanilla files and NMC, so that NMC overwrites it?  Or, should it be placed after NMC, so that it overwrites NMC?  I only guessed that it should be placed between, since I imagine that the purpose of it is to fix vanilla files, not NMC's files.  Is this correct? 

WOW!  So I added in that Resources pack and ran the LOD generator again.  I compared screenshots to one I made following the current instructions in the guide and there is a huge difference.  I now have WAY more detail in the LODs.  I am going to update the instructions to state that the FNVLODGen Resources pack is needed.  It certainly was an improvement.  For now I'm going to state that it should be installed right at the beginning of the guide so that it replaces vanilla LOD files but not NMC LOD files.

 

I will wait for feedback before doing this guide change...

[oqhansoloqo]

https://i.imgur.com/nAj0syl.png

Not all mods have correct versions but install date and it doesn't work very well. Next time you update them please make a list on updated plugins

By the way, I just looked at your screenshot.  The reason the mods you installed don't tell you if you have the newest version or not is because you had never set that information up when you first installed the mods.  One thing you should do is always correct the mod Nexus link and version # for a mod when you first install it.  I don't know if EssArrBee mentioned that tip in the F&L guide, but I thought it was common knowledge amongst MO modders.  It may not be, but it's a very important practice to do in order to have MO keep track of the versions you have installed and let you know automatically when new versions come out.

[Adonis_VII]

The LOD Resource pack adds meshes and textures pulled from the individual atlas's so they could be used to generate the new atlas. Obsidian only had some of the _lod.dds in the .bsa, many were only in the atlas. (The FO3 version used in C&PD uses some new meshes/textures that Obsidian made for existing meshes which didn't have LOD in FO3) 

 

I initially added the resource to the end of the guide as all the _lod.dds textures found in mods (NMC, Poco, MG's off the top of my head) were versions used as a basis for altering the atlas, and weren't necessarily the correct size, as all of them were made before FNVLODGen was started. NMC for instance had a 2k rock file that could cause the FNVLODgen generated meshes to split into 2 nodes in the mesh.  As fallout only can load a single node (unlike Skyrim) this would cause users to only load whichever node was listed first, and not loading the other node at all.  The NMC fix then was put up for users who wouldn't be paying attention.

 

The resource can be loaded before mods so that they override, but the issue is while Poco Bueno may override NMC for textureX.dds, NMC may still win for textureX_lod.dds.  This isn't the biggest deal, but I didn't go through them all and I was working on FLIP to replace all the major LOD to match the setup for F&L and C&PD.  SRB changed the wording, then someone remove the line about the resources completely, but I'm not sure when that happened.

 

Example of matching LOD from FLIP: Before -> After

Edited September 19, 2015 by Adonis_VII

[oqhansoloqo]

NMC doesn't win though for nv_rockcanyonrdrklod_d.dds (that is the only file in the NMC fix mod) - if the fix mod is placed after NMC but before Poco Bueno, the fix mod overwrites that one file in NMC but then is completely overwritten by Poco Bueno.  It just so happens that Poco Bueno is loaded after NMC according to F&L guide instructions and it overwrites the file.  So when FNVLODGen is attempting to find the LOD file to use, wouldn't it be using Poco Bueno's, since that is the dominant file due to it's load order?  To me this means that the NMC fix is unnecessary for F&L guide users.  In fact, I would think that if the NMC fix were placed at the end of the guide (after Poco Bueno) it would create a LOD mismatch to the non-LOD counterpart due to this.

 

Anyway, are you suggesting that the FNVLODGen Resources package be added back into the guide instructions?  I noticed a big positive difference myself.

[Adonis_VII]

In that case yes, the fix would be unnecessary.  I was trying to say that I hadn't actually looked in depth at all the conflicts when the resource pack was first added to the guide.  I would suggest that it be added back into the guide, sans the fix, before NMC & Poco Bueno so that you still get the extra assets not covered by those two, but that they win.

 

EDIT: I should note that in the FO3 atleast a couple of the resource textures are not as clear as the textures in the original atlas.  I'm grabbing comparison pictures now.

 

Pre-Gen (All vanilla LOD) -> Post-Gen (My Walls + resource pack LOD)

I came across this during the testing of my new LOD meshes.  I've cropped the screenshot to help focus on the building in the center.  You can see that the details are much finer using the vanilla LOD system with atlas compared to using that particular texture found in the resource pack with LODGen. I have not noticed this with FNV yet, but I haven't looked at every single one. There are 5 outcomes here:

1. A LOD texture exists in vanilla atlas,but not as a _lod.dds file. Running LODgen without Resources will cause it to NOT have LOD
2. A LOD texture exists in vanilla atlas, and as a _lod.dds file. Running LODgen without Resources will cause it to have LOD.
3. A LOD texture exists in vanilla atlas,but not as a _lod.dds file. Running LODgen with Resources will cause it to have LOD.
4. A LOD texture exists in vanilla atlas, and as a _lod.dds file. Running LODgen with Resources will cause it to have LOD (though possibly fuzzy as in case above).
5. A LOD texture DOESN'T exist in vanilla atlas. Running LODgen with Resources will cause it to have LOD.

I think the multiple extra objects outweigh to possibility of a few textures being slightly fuzzy (which would be considered a bug). The screenshot is cropped from 4k, so it may not be something a user would notice unless they were looking analytically like I was.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Adonis_VII