CTD and Performance patch ENBoost (by Boris Vorontsov)

[Kuldebar]

Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim 0.251

Version updated, download again

Removed ExpandSystemMemoryX64 parameter because of incompatibility with some SKSE alpha version setting and SKSE plugins with it.

So, this issue is still smoldering, at least enough for Boris to pull it from his build. Seems rash to me, because the issue if it exists with the SKSE builds only impacted a few people by all accounts.

 

PS keithinhanoi, this is all your fault! :P

[CJ2311]

Good thing I still have the 250 binaries then.

And honestly, I can understand Boris' reaction, I can't imagine it's a sinecure to deal with a lot of people complaining that their favourite sex mod doesn't work with ENBoost or whatever :p

[Nearox]

So no more support for up to 128GB enbhost file either? :S

[Octopuss]

Just looking at that forum makes me suddenly appreciate Starac's attitude.

This dude is pure WTF. The last page is just incredible. He sure likes to know better about everything, not just ENB.

[keithinhanoi]

Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim 0.251

Version updated, download again

Removed ExpandSystemMemoryX64 parameter because of incompatibility with some SKSE alpha version setting and SKSE plugins with it.

So, this issue is still smoldering, at least enough for Boris to pull it from his build. Seems rash to me, because the issue if it exists with the SKSE builds only impacted a few people by all accounts.

 

PS keithinhanoi, this is all your fault! :P

Yeah, tell me about it. I guess some mysteries in life are meant to be left alone...

 

The thing is where issues with ExpandSystemMemoryX64=true + ECE and the SKSE alpha are concerned, it's not at all clear if sheson's memory patch was also being used, and when trying SKSE 1.6.16 was SSME or a modified skse_steam_loader.dll with the memory patch being used, etc.

 

Even with ExpandSystemMemoryX64 gone or disabled, I still worry that the issues with SKSE 1.7.0 that Boris has mentioned are indicative of some differences in the way it works (even without sheson's patch) that may cause other CTD-prone problems to crop up in future. 

 

EDIT:

 

@Nearox: ExpandSystemMemoryX64 doesn't relate to the enbhost.exe feature, just the method of allocating memory address blocks in TESV.exe itself. So the increase of the dynamic memory allocation cap to 128GB is still there - don't worry (yet.)

[Nearox]

Thx keith! I think all the explanations you have done over time regarding the working of both ENBoost and Mempatch deserve to be compiled into a wiki page or something :)

[Kuldebar]

Boris:

Well, ExpandSystemMemoryX64 is good only for certain things and when memory manager enabled, it almost useless.

Now see, that's first time I heard that piece of information.

 

So having DisableDriverMemoryManager=false mitigated or reduced the ExpandSystemMemoryX64 functionality? And, then there was the Skyrim patch for PC 1.3.10 which added 4-Gigabyte Tuning (Large Address Aware) support...so, the "expanded memory" setting was always a curious thing to me.

[redirishlord]

Good thing I still have the 250 binaries then.

And honestly, I can understand Boris' reaction, I can't imagine it's a sinecure to deal with a lot of people complaining that their favourite sex mod doesn't work with ENBoost or whatever :p

I've got the v0.251 binary previous to this revision.

https://copy.com/yTkvfBG4Xtzi

Also, SkyrimTuner of Realvision ENB keeps an extensive archive of ENB binaries publicly accessible, although I'm not sure which v0.251 he has available there:

https://forum.skyrimtuner.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=99

[CJ2311]

Good thing I still have the 250 binaries then.

And honestly, I can understand Boris' reaction, I can't imagine it's a sinecure to deal with a lot of people complaining that their favourite sex mod doesn't work with ENBoost or whatever :p

I've got the v0.251 binary previous to this revision.

https://copy.com/yTkvfBG4Xtzi

Also, SkyrimTuner of Realvision ENB keeps an extensive archive of ENB binaries publicly accessible, although I'm not sure which v0.251 he has available there:

https://forum.skyrimtuner.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=99

Thanks :D

[keithinhanoi]

Boris:

Well, ExpandSystemMemoryX64 is good only for certain things and when memory manager enabled, it almost useless.

Now see, that's first time I heard that piece of information.

 

So having DisableDriverMemoryManager=false mitigated or reduced the ExpandSystemMemoryX64 functionality? And, then there was the Skyrim patch for PC 1.3.10 which added 4-Gigabyte Tuning (Large Address Aware) support...so, the "expanded memory" setting was always a curious thing to me.

The ExpandSystemMemoryX64 has absolutely nothing to do with giving Skyrim, a 32-bit application, access to a full 4GB memory address space. The Skyrim patch which made TESV.exe LAA already did that.

 

Boris has posted the source code for the function, and even though I don't know a lick of C++, it's clear that it makes changes to how memory is allocated. Boris' explanation is that it allows for larger blocks of memory to be allocated - inside TESV.exe's memory address space - thus reducing memory fragmentation, and apparently will "free up more system memory" on x64 (64-bit) systems to make use of the full 4GB available. Despite this, it does not allow TESV.exe to access beyond its 3.1GB cap - that's essentially locked because Windows system processes must take up that last .9GB. So ExpandSystemMemoryX64 is an optimization feature, best used with 64-bit systems, but doesn't give Skyrim any additional access to memory.

 

As for his statement about the ExpandSystemMemoryX64 feature's usefulness when the memory manager is enabled, I believe you've misunderstood it.

 

Since I recently scoured the ENB Forums for any relevant posts by Boris, I can tell you that he has talked about this before - but in even more cryptic English:

Variable is useful, but practically much less than when memory manager enabled completely without it, try without it enabled.

Using my English language teacher "superpowers", let me translate that to something more easily understood:

 

ExpandSystemMemoryX64 is useful, but in practical terms it is much less useful than if you enable the memory manager with ExpandSystemMemoryX64 disabled.

 

Put another way, if you are using the memory manager, then you don't really need ExpandSystemMemoryX64, because it's not very useful. Add to this that in the same post with the above quote he says very clearly that depending on the game code, enabling ExpandSystemMemoryX64 can cause crashes / freezes. This post was in a thread on Fallout, but it's not difficult to see that this could also apply to Skyrim.

 

So what is the "memory manager" that Boris is talking about?

 

That's a bit more elusive - he could be talking about the main ENBoost feature, when ReduceSystemMemoryUsage is enabled and the enbhost.exe process(es) are used, or he could be referring to his alternative video memory manager that is used when DisableDriverMemoryManager is enabled (set to true).

 

Should I ask? I'm not sure it would help, as he's just thrown out the ExpandSystemMemoryX64 feature.

[Kuldebar]

As always Keith, your pilgrimages to the slopes of Mount Parnassus always yield instructive interpretations. :)

[keithinhanoi]

As always Keith' date=' your pilgrimages to the slopes of Mount Parnassus always yield instructive interpretations. :)

Well, it seems I should have taken better notes when hearing the prophesies of Pythia, because I forgot one key word in my interpretation of Boris' comments about the usefulness of ExpandSystemMemoryX64:

 

ExpandSystemMemoryX64 is useful, but in practical terms it is much less useful than if you enable the memory manager with ExpandSystemMemoryX64 disabled.

 

It's fixed in my post now.

 

I'm thinking, what the heck, I'm going to ask Boris what he means by "memory manager." What possible harm could it do? 

[redirishlord]

@ CJ2311: welcome, I've benefitted greatly from this community, anything I can do to give back is a pleasure. Well, "re-gift" back anyway.

 

Once Boris calms down he'll probably add that parameter back in a future version.

 

@ KeithInHanoi: famous last words! Good luck and godspeed.

[Kuldebar]

ExpandSystemMemoryX64 is useful, but in practical terms it is much less useful than if you enable the memory manager with ExpandSystemMemoryX64 disabled.

 

 

 

That's a pretty big deal. Reading that, I would have kept ExpandSystemMemoryX64 disabled from the start and ensured I always enabled the Driver Memory Manager. At present, I have the following:

 

[MEMORY]

ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=true

DisableDriverMemoryManager=true  <---I wonder if I should change that...but I am currently not having any meaningful issues, so I shall refrain

DisablePreloadToVRAM=true

EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=false

ReservedMemorySizeMb=128

VideoMemorySizeMb=4095

EnableCompression=true

AutodetectVideoMemorySize=false

[keithinhanoi]

Okay folks, I have dropped the motherlode on this ExpandSystemMemoryX64 situation.

 

I asked Boris what he means when he says "memory manager", and I've tried to clarify for the record once and for all what ExpandSystemMemoryX64 actually does (or did, as the case may be.) I sincerely hope I am correct in my understanding of it.

 

Holding my breath to see what happens...