ACCEPTED Vanilla Body with UNP Textures (by Shiva182)

[Mousetick]

Yes you're absolutely right. I'm getting all confused, sorry.

So back to your original question: you can see that the bare female feet meshes included in this mod are identical to those in Tempered Skins, which is expected since they're both UNP. 

The way I have them set up is: this mod first, then Tempered Skins overwrites it. So there are only a few outfit meshes from this mod that remain: the ones that fix the nipple slip issue caused by UNP body textures + vanilla clothing meshes, and a couple of shoes. Those are not included in Tempered Skins.

[z929669]

3 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

Yes you're absolutely right. I'm getting all confused, sorry.

So back to your original question: you can see that the bare female feet meshes included in this mod are identical to those in Tempered Skins, which is expected since they're both UNP. 

The way I have them set up is: this mod first, then Tempered Skins overwrites it. So there are only a few outfit meshes from this mod that remain: the ones that fix the nipple slip issue caused by UNP body textures + vanilla clothing meshes, and a couple of shoes. Those are not included in Tempered Skins.

No worries. It happens to me constantly. There's sooo much to contain in my aging brain that things drop off. I actually had to double check that I wasn't mistaken myself

So I assumed by this mod's name, that those outfit meshes not included with TS Females are vanilla body meshes with UV edits for UNP textures ... and that the feet were likewise the diameter of vanilla ankles and might clip a bit.

Your point about mod priority is well taken, and I hadn't even thought of moving this mod to lower priority than Tempered Skins. Duh.

I have already adjusted FAR and CoverKhajiits to higher priority than TS. Step has both at lower priority and is hiding files in TS Males as a result, but I didn't have that epiphany with this mod:

I will be moving this one up a bit from what is shown here.

[Mousetick]

9 hours ago, z929669 said:

So I assumed by this mod's name, that those outfit meshes not included with TS Females are vanilla body meshes with UV edits for UNP textures ... and that the feet were likewise the diameter of vanilla ankles and might clip a bit.

I understand what you mean now. This whole body/clothing thing is such a headache. Theoretically this mod shouldn't be needed at all when using Tempered Skins UNP body meshes. Its MA says it likewise:

Quote

If you're using UNP, you have no need for this mod. This mod is only for vanilla body users, so they're able to use UNP textures.

And yet here we are, because somehow the Tempered Skins option (A7) used doesn't work quite right with some vanilla outfits.

If you'd like to investigate more and get down this rabbit hole, go for it

The way I see it, by overwriting this mod with Tempered Skins we're only filling the gap that should have been filled by Tempered Skins in the first place. Nothing is lost, nothing is reverted to vanilla, we were already using vanilla meshes for those outfits not replaced by Tempered Skins.

Tempered Skins only provides UNP meshes for female nude/underwear body, bare feet, footwear, and bare hands. If you put on a piece of clothing or armor, the body underneath reverts to vanilla shape, since we're using vanilla-based clothing & armor meshes. Does that make sense?

There's another mod by the same MA that tweaks vanilla clothing and armor to closely fit UNP bodies: UNP Body Fit Armors and Clothing. You could take a look if you like. It may not work well with the specific variant (A7) of Tempered Skins that we're using.

[z929669]

4 hours ago, Mousetick said:

I understand what you mean now. This whole body/clothing thing is such a headache. Theoretically this mod shouldn't be needed at all when using Tempered Skins UNP body meshes. Its MA says it likewise:

And yet here we are, because somehow the Tempered Skins option (A7) used doesn't work quite right with some vanilla outfits.

If you'd like to investigate more and get down this rabbit hole, go for it

The way I see it, by overwriting this mod with Tempered Skins we're only filling the gap that should have been filled by Tempered Skins in the first place. Nothing is lost, nothing is reverted to vanilla, we were already using vanilla meshes for those outfits not replaced by Tempered Skins.

Tempered Skins only provides UNP meshes for female nude/underwear body, bare feet, footwear, and bare hands. If you put on a piece of clothing or armor, the body underneath reverts to vanilla shape, since we're using vanilla-based clothing & armor meshes. Does that make sense?

There's another mod by the same MA that tweaks vanilla clothing and armor to closely fit UNP bodies: UNP Body Fit Armors and Clothing. You could take a look if you like. It may not work well with the specific variant (A7) of Tempered Skins that we're using.

 

Bodies and armor are definitely confusing, and I know very little. It is another rabbit hole that I have not delved extensively so will withhold any of my potentially erroneous assumptions.

Sometimes it's best to accept a solution without necessarily understanding it!

[Mousetick]

In any case, you may want to update the instructions in the 2.1 guide to put this mod in the correct order (i.e. before Tempered Skins). Even if it's deprecated, some users are still referring to it while waiting for 2.2.

[CorneliusC]

I was trying to follow and comprehend your conversation, just barely. About positioning the mod, according to it's author it wouldn't matter which one of the two mods would win the conflict: "The conflicted files are the feet and shoe meshes, they're basically the same so it doesn't matter which ones you choose. What you get from this mod that you won't get from Tempered is edited clothing and armors, so the nipples won't show."

[TechAngel85]

We've been over and over why this mod is in the Guide. Why do we keep coming back to it?

[z929669]

1 hour ago, TechAngel85 said:

We've been over and over why this mod is in the Guide. Why do we keep coming back to it?

Nobody was questioning its need, only its implementation.

I was essentially confirming the install order of this one relative to Tempered Skins, due to some inconsistencies I had with getting consistent screen compares of M/F of each race. After looking more closely at all the mods involved, we have determined that this mod's position in the lineup probably doesn't matter, but our beast-race texture replacers are probably best prioritized higher than Tempered Skins to avoid having to hide TS textures for males.

[TechAngel85]

7 hours ago, z929669 said:

Nobody was questioning its need, only its implementation.

I was essentially confirming the install order of this one relative to Tempered Skins, due to some inconsistencies I had with getting consistent screen compares of M/F of each race. After looking more closely at all the mods involved, we have determined that this mod's position in the lineup probably doesn't matter, but our beast-race texture replacers are probably best prioritized higher than Tempered Skins to avoid having to hide TS textures for males.

It's below TS to prevent the areola and nipple of the female body from showing, if I recall corrected. I think @CorneliusC mentioned the same thing.

[z929669]

19 minutes ago, TechAngel85 said:

It's below TS to prevent the areola and nipple of the female body from showing, if I recall corrected. I think @CorneliusC mentioned the same thing.

I think it was just placed alphabetically, because the meshes that fix the nipple issue are not in conflict with anything else, and if it's lower priority than Tempered Skins, then that mod wins all of the foot meshes conflicts. This is what the conflicts look like with this mod set to lower priority than TS:

The question is if the feet meshes from this mod are compatible with the TS bodies in all other cases besides these fixed meshes displayed on only a handful of NPCs ... since the TS meshes apply to all other female characters, its probably safest to simply let TS win. If they are compatible, it shouldn't matter either way, but if they're not, then letting TS win will be correct 99% of the time (on all other female characters) rather than 1% of the time (on these few 'nipply' female NPCs).

[Kattmandu]

Is it safe to assume, if a user has installed "Tempered Skins for Females CBBE" rather than "Tempered Skins for Females UNP and Vanilla", they don't need to install "Vanilla Body with UNP Textures"?  Seems logical but I'm no expert.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Kattmandu

[z929669]

1 hour ago, Kattmandu said:

Is it safe to assume, if a user has installed "Tempered Skins for Females CBBE" rather than "Tempered Skins for Females UNP and Vanilla", they don't need to install "Vanilla Body with UNP Textures"?  Seems logical but I'm no expert.

The answer is 'maybe?' ... probably true, BUT ...

Using CBBE with the Step build may yield unexpected results, given the clothing/armor mods we are using. There may be some other compatibility choices you will use or even patches. CBBE support is outside the scope of our build.

[Kattmandu]

9 minutes ago, z929669 said:

The answer is 'maybe?' ... probably true, BUT ...

Using CBBE with the Step build may yield unexpected results, given the clothing/armor mods we are using. There may be some other compatibility choices you will use or even patches. CBBE support is outside the scope of our build.

I would use UNP but I installed BodySlide and Outfit Studio and it seemed easier to change the body meshes and textures to CBBE.  Seems like BodySlide was built with CBBE in mind and is much easier to implement using it.  Maybe I'll spend more time with BodySlide and set it up with UNP instead.