STEP v2.2.9 Official Bug Reports

[Eagleman]

Thanks, that worked. Perhaps that should be mentioned in the STEP instructions?

Yeh i think so to, since mods like Fuz Ro Doh and Smart Souls also instruct you to create ini files in their corresponding dirs.

[Catnose]

Yeh i think so to, since mods like Fuz Ro Doh and Smart Souls also instruct you to create ini files in their corresponding dirs.

Yes they do, but it is a little different, since they give direct instructions about a file you must create, and where to place that file. Alt-f4 mod information doesn't mention such help.

[DoubleYou]

This is mentioned on the Overwrite section of the Mod Organizer guide. https://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:Mod_Organizer#tab=Overwrite

[Freyrgjurd]

Let me see:

 

1. iPresent Interval=0, enblocal.ini Vsync False + VSync Always Off (on NVIDIA Control Panel or NVIDIA Inpector [samething, since Inspector just changes profiles instead of global values])

FPS: Up to 180.

 

2. iPresent Interval=0, enblocal.ini Vsync True + VSync Always Off [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 180.

 

3. iPresent Interval=1, enblocal.ini Vsync True + VSync Always Off [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 180.

 

4. iPresent Interval=0, enblocal.ini Vsync True + VSync App. Controlled [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 61.

 

5. iPresent Interval=1, enblocal.ini Vsync True + VSync App. Controlled [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 61.

 

6. iPresent Interval=1, enblocal.ini Vsync False + VSync App. Controlled [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 63.

 

@Conclusion

 

At NVIDIA Inspector / NVIDIA Control Panel if VSync is Forced Off, it will disbled it even if other settings enable it.

 

I suggest you stick to APP. Controlled, since the panel won't activate it, but will allow for ENB or the game itself to enable it.

 

Furthermore, iPresent Interval=0 was known to mess up physics in the game. I experienced it with items floating around like crazy after lockpicking a door or just by walking over it.

 

IMO: iPresentInterval=1, enblocal.ini VSync True and App. Controlled.

[TechAngel85]

Let me see:

 

1. iPresent Interval=0, enblocal.ini Vsync False + VSync Always Off (on NVIDIA Control Panel or NVIDIA Inpector [samething, since Inspector just changes profiles instead of global values])

 

FPS: Up to 180.

 

2. iPresent Interval=0, enblocal.ini Vsync True + VSync Always Off [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 180.

 

3. iPresent Interval=1, enblocal.ini Vsync True + VSync Always Off [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 180.

 

4. iPresent Interval=0, enblocal.ini Vsync True + VSync App. Controlled [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 61.

 

5. iPresent Interval=1, enblocal.ini Vsync True + VSync App. Controlled [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 61.

 

6. iPresent Interval=1, enblocal.ini Vsync False + VSync App. Controlled [CP~]

 

FPS: Up to 63.

 

@Conclusion

 

At NVIDIA Inspector / NVIDIA Control Panel if VSync is Forced Off, it will disbled it even if other settings enable it.

 

I suggest you stick to APP. Controlled, since the panel won't activate it, but will allow for ENB or the game itself to enable it.

 

Furthermore, iPresent Interval=0 was known to mess up physics in the game. I experienced it with items floating around like crazy after lockpicking a door or just by walking over it.

 

IMO: iPresentInterval=1, enblocal.ini VSync True and App. Controlled.

Thanks for this! I also agree with you opinion I highlighted above. Many users report issues when iPresentInterval is turned off. The havok system (physics) will go haywire with this off usually due to really high FPS. With that turned off and no vysnc, one would have to enable a frame rate limiter to fix those issues. However, many report that certain aspects of the game also rely on iPresentInterval to always be enabled. Some of these reported aspect include time-of-days events, NPC paths and events, and certain quests. It doesn't hurt to leave it enable so I personally recommend it always be enabled just to thwart any potential issues, if nothing else.

[z929669]

Vsync is more of a case by case scenario if you ask me. For instance, I have to be very careful about vsync and frame rate limiters with my monitor. It's an IPS panel and it does not agree with some of the settings. I mainly leave all that on default and I'm good to go.

 

iPresentInterval should be left on though. Most tend to agree that the game engine and certain aspects of the game need it. We're currently telling users to turn it off and use vsync in ENBoost. Both can be enabled without issue and leaving iPresentInterval turned on could negate some future issues.

iPresentInterval on negates the ENB vsync behavior as I recall, but this post (and following) has some useful info for investigation to confirm. I'll put it on my to-do list.

 

Unfortunately, this kind of thing is really hardware (and software) specific, so I think we may need to offer up (by updating the STEP guide) a couple of different viable scenarios for users to cycle through to settle on a "best fit" for almost any user. ... but I need more Nvidia feedback like we have here. AMD drivers/software do not dominate control as I recall, because I run with iPresentInterval=0 and ENB vsync=true and AMD vsync forced off, and my FPS are effectively limited (see specs in sig).

[TechAngel85]

Nvidia will run exactly as it's been described in the post above. There really isn't any need for multiple people testing. It's graphic card specific. The only other things that might change it would be drivers and the monitors refresh rate. We all know that Boris caters to Nvidia and only fixes AMD bugs when necessary.

 

From Z's link above...Boris's quote (users confirmed later in the thread that the issues which brought this up was a driver issue...which is again, why I say to never use Beta drivers!):

If vsync disabled in the enblocal.ini, then only in driver it can be enabled. If vsync enabled in the enblocal.ini, then it enabled only if enabled in skyrimprefs.ini.

 

If I'm reading that correctly, from the first sentence...if ENB vsync is turned off, then only the driver version of it will work. From the second sentence....if ENB vsync is enabled, then so must be iPresentInterval in the SkyrimPrefs.ini for it to actually work correctly.

 

 

Currently I have two setups...

 

STEP:Extended Profile // iPresentInterval =0, ENB vsync enabled, Drivers set to application controlled.

Personal Profile // iPresentInterval =1, ENB vsync enabled, Drivers set to application controlled.

 

My result here are the same as #4 and #5 above. It would seem that iPresentInterval doesn't need to be enabled in order for the ENB vsync to work. Boris might have changed something since v0.231. In any case, when it comes straight from Boris himself we should probably be listening and follow his advice to keep iPresentInterval enabled for both ENB and ENBoost users.

[z929669]

Agree that Boris' info may be outdated, but there are so many variations of hardware and software that I think even Boris will not always know all outcomes and behaviors. this is why we may want to develop a flow chart beginning with

• 'best' recommendations
• verification of functionality
• 'best' alternative
• verification of functionality
• yada-yada

Nothing too complicated, but a simple method of landing on the best possible solution for all users, regardless of hardware/software.

[TechAngel85]

Agree that Boris' info may be outdated, but there are so many variations of hardware and software that I think even Boris will not always know all outcomes and behaviors. this is why we may want to develop a flow chart beginning with

• 'best' recommendations
• verification of functionality
• 'best' alternative
• verification of functionality
• yada-yada

Nothing too complicated, but a simple method of landing on the best possible solution for all users, regardless of hardware/software.

I have no idea where you're getting "so many variations of hardware and software" from.

 

Hardware = Video card; either AMD or Nvidia.

Software = Skyrim + ENBoost/ENB (makes no difference which because they're both the same)

 

Memory, monitor, hard drive...none of that matters when it comes to the topic of discussion. If anyone is thinking that the monitor matters, it doesn't. Vsync syncs the video card to the monitor's refresh rate regardless of the monitor so that it isn't running faster than what the monitor can display which is commonly called "tearing". That's all there is to it. The monitor itself matters not.

 

The only variation that might not fit into this perfectly is whether the video card is a mobile version or not, but even then it should work the same (this comes from having experience using mobile for over three+ years for gaming). So all we have to figure out is what works best for AMD and what works best for Nvidia on the latest stable drivers (if users don't want to update their drivers that's not our concern). That's it. I see now other variables that would make a difference.

 

As for iPresentInterval, it shouldn't even be in the equation. It should be left on for all users due to certain aspects of the game relying on that parameter to not be changed from its default. The only way we can get 100% confirmation that it isn't needed is to talk to the developers themselves. What we have to rely on is the numerous reports of some things breaking with it off which can be found all over the internet and word from Boris himself which I consider to be one of a few people in an elite class that know how Skyrim functions better than most (others would include Sheson, the SKSE Team, the unofficial patch team, etc). This should be reason enough to leave it enabled. Also, since leaving it enabled does absolutely no harm and has no negative effect on performance (that I have experienced) then it shouldn't even be in question that leaving it enabled is the "best" recommendation.

[z929669]

Hardware

• system bus
• expansion cards
• display adapters
• lots of other stuff

 

software:

• drivers (tons of them)
• services (tons of them)

There are literally thousands of differences in each system, and many of these variations can affect other things indirectly. You are simplifying too much, and this is why one prescriptive will not work for everyone, especially considering that we are talking about a custom app that plays around with Windows memory management (not just vsync). All of this may or may not be related to whether or not ENB settings and INI settings have same effects across systems.

 

EDIT: and I did not even mention sortware/firmware versioning diffs and interactions.

 

EDIT2: in my personal testing iPresentInterval did have an impact on performance relating to vsync, stutter and FPS. This impact may have been due to combinations of other settings or it may have been due to my own unique system (or perhaps I had not exhausted all possibilities or sources of variation).

 

There is no consensus on whether or not that INI setting is even a little important, because there are likely other variables in play.

[DoYouEvenModBro]

Just so you guys know, the AMD guide in 2.2.9 says to keep ipresentinterval=0 and the ENB guide says to keep it as 1. Also, AMD guide says to set driver vsync as always off while you guys are saying to keep it as app controlled. Will this ever get solved? :-/

Edited November 17, 2014 by DoYouEvenModBro

[z929669]

We are working to arrive at a consensus. So far, there is no solid evidence either way, so we will need to systematically test the effects of all of these settings.

 

For the moment, I would go with Tech's advice, since setting iPresentInterval=1 is the most prevalent advice from various sources. We will update the guide accordingly unless someone presents evidence that turning on this feature interferes with ENB vsync. I will look into it at some point, but as I said, I recall that turning this feature on was detrimental to my setup at one point ... but there are three potentially interacting mechanisms here, and I do not remember the details of my findings (just that I wrote the current STEP recommendations based on my rather extensive testing ... notes would have been really helpful though!):

• Driver vsync/AA/AF settings
• ENB vsync/AA/AF (other?) setting(s)
• SkyrimPrefs.ini vsync/AA/AF settings

[TechAngel85]

Hardware

• system bus
• expansion cards
• display adapters
• lots of other stuff

 

software:

• drivers (tons of them)
• services (tons of them)

There are literally thousands of differences in each system, and many of these variations can affect other things indirectly. You are simplifying too much, and this is why one prescriptive will not work for everyone, especially considering that we are talking about a custom app that plays around with Windows memory management (not just vsync). All of this may or may not be related to whether or not ENB settings and INI settings have same effects across systems.

 

EDIT: and I did not even mention sortware/firmware versioning diffs and interactions.

 

EDIT2: in my personal testing iPresentInterval did have an impact on performance relating to vsync, stutter and FPS. This impact may have been due to combinations of other settings or it may have been due to my own unique system (or perhaps I had not exhausted all possibilities or sources of variation).

 

There is no consensus on whether or not that INI setting is even a little important, because there are likely other variables in play.

Hardware:

Please enlighten me as to what any of that has anything to do with vsync operation besides the display adapter (aka Video Card for any user using STEP). System Bus? Really?  I don't even know how to respond to that one... the system bus hasn't been an issue in computers for the last 10 years... Other expansion cards, which would most likely be a sound card or NIC, have nothing to do with vsync... Reaching here?

 

Software:

We should only be providing testing with the latest stable drivers for Skyrim as I pointed out earlier. There are too many drivers to test and if users don't want to update, that is their problem. We can't cater to every possible scenario or we'd be here for years. We test on the latest drivers for the respective brand (AMD and Nvidia) and provide those results with those drivers.

 

Making it too simple? Possibly, but you're making it way too complicated which is why no one else tested the last time. If you want users to test, don't make it overly complicated or develop an easy way to test what you're wanting to test; otherwise, you'll end up with only one or two testing which is in no where near the data pool you need to find any consensus.

 

I know full well all the interactions within a computer system and how different programs can affect one another. You know I have a lot of knowledge from both schooling and field experience in computers and networking as well. I can tell you, very little to none of those things you've mention is going to have any meaningful impact on the operation of vsync here. If you prove me wrong, I'll eat my words. If you come up with a testing method, I'll be happy to test as long as it's not too complicated. I won't be logging every inch of my system just to test a few combinations out though. I already know what works on my system and am fairly confident it'll work for others because I've passed out the advice a lot and it's always seems to work. Of course nearly all these users were Nvidia users. If something isn't working right for AMD users, it needs to be reported to Boris and he might fix it...if you're lucky. Haha!

 

 

We are working to arrive at a consensus. So far, there is no solid evidence either way, so we will need to systematically test the effects of all of these settings.

 

For the moment, I would go with Tech's advice, since setting iPresentInterval=1 is the most prevalent advice from various sources. We will update the guide accordingly unless someone presents evidence that turning on this feature interferes with ENB vsync. I will look into it at some point, but as I said, I recall that turning this feature on was detrimental to my setup at one point ... but there are three potentially interacting mechanisms here, and I do not remember the details of my findings (just that I wrote the current STEP recommendations based on my rather extensive testing ... notes would have been really helpful though!):

• Driver vsync/AA/AF settings
• ENB vsync/AA/AF (other?) setting(s)
• SkyrimPrefs.ini vsync/AA/AF settings

 

Yeah, that is all going to have to be retested. Boris has done quite a bit of work since you did all that testing. We really didn't even know that much about all the parameter like we do now when you did that.

[Freyrgjurd]

I guess you guys can come with a middle term ?

 

Like:

NVIDIA Recommended: iPresentInterval=1, ENB VSync ON and App Controlled.

 

In case of frame stutter, tearing or another problem related to VSync:

NVIDIA Alternative: iPresentInterval=0, ENB Vsync OFF and Always On.

 

I used the second for AGES (but with iPresentInterval=1) and never had a problem.

 

The fact is not who is controling VSync (ENB, NVIDIA Driver), but the disadvantages of using the ini setting on 0, which is know all around.
(e.g. Messing up Havok with items and bodies flying around when touched, bugging npcs navpaths, etc.)

 

Z might have had problems because of poor optimization of the .dll from Boris, or not. But I'm with Tech on this one.

[z929669]

@Tech

With your training then you should know that expansion cards plug into the motherboard, and the mobo drivers and architecture are not the same among systems. If you plug a given video card into two different systems, you will get two different results.

 

My point is that there is more that can affect frame buffer memory management than just the video drivers, Skyrim INIs and ENB. Even the software devs don't claim to know how a given piece of hardware will behave in one system to the next for all systems in all configs using the software they develop. The fact that there are so many varying reports of the effects of the various settings we recommend is testament to this. (and the question here is not simply about how to enable vsync ... it is about how to get the best video behavior possible in terms of stutter, FPS and screen tearing.)

 

I am not challenging you personally on your knowledge, I am challenging you and everyone else on the facts, and the fact is that we are not sure of the facts or all of the reasons that we see such variation (please point me to the proof). Boris himself alludes to this kind of thing all the time and so does anyone that uses the statement "your mileage may vary". No two systems are the same, and they fall within a veritable continuum.

 

Regarding iPresentInterval ... where are the facts that this setting is the cause of havok issues? All I have seen is hearsay and assumption. It is more likely that those issues were caused by high FPS, which --in fact-- does cause rendering glitches that can indeed manifest as havok problems.

 

I have never seen such havok problems in my setup (which uses the guide rec of iPresentInterval=0 BTW) ... so this is either 1) because my system is different than others' or 2) because iPresentInterval really does not cause these glitches directly. I am naturally skeptical of all of the data we have on the matter, because the reports vary.

 

I am not citing any 'complicated' testing regime. I am merely asking users to test various settings for these three components (Skyrim INI, ENB and video drivers) ... is this really too complicated? It is looking that way, given the amount of banter on this thread.