GUIDE General Feedback

Kelmych · December 6, 2014

The comments from post 174 were also included in the guide update posted today. Thanks for all the help.

hishutup · December 6, 2014

can you post your modlist so I can compare them to see if I did it correctly?

revolver Millenia replacer

I should be clearer on my misunderstanding.

Its easy to miss "Now open the referenced FNV mod archive file and copy the "meshes", "sound", and "textures" folders into the mod, then close the Explorer window."

Maybe something along the lines of:

Now open the FNV equivalent mod, [https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/49293 Smith and Wesson M10 38 special] and copy the "meshes", "sound", and "textures" folders into the mod, then close the Explorer window.

I think the underline and blue text will help with visibility

20th Century Weapons

xCALIBR_20CW is still mentioned

"The ''CALIBR.esm'' and "xCALIBR_20CW" files should be eliminated during installation, or moved to ''Optional ESPs'' after installation."

Retextured Labels - Food - Abraxo - Detergent

Is completely overwritten by MG clutter

Idk about you but I like a ton of radio stations and they should be merge-able. Maybe a section dedicated to compatible and decent radio stations may be worth while.

Robco Certfied FIX for Paradox EVE users is obsolete and redundant because of the one that is located on the EVE - Energy Visuals Enhanced page. the one on the eve page is the newer version.

Robco Certfied

I dont think any patches are needed but you'll need to double check because

* RobCo Certified v2 Impervious FWE

* RobCo Certified v2 Impervious

* RobCo Certified v2 EVE

are all missing a master

*RobCo Certified v2 FWE

isnt that included in the omnipatch?

EssArrBee · December 6, 2014

@Kelmych, did you try out that new installer for MO yet, so you don't have to do the FOMM install?

Kelmych · December 6, 2014

@Kelmych, did you try out that new installer for MO yet, so you don't have to do the FOMM install?

I installed the new mod to replace the existing NCC client and tested it using a fairly simple non-UI mod that has a fomod. It worked fine. I haven't tested it with a UI mod that overwrites existing files (If I test this I'll have to backup a lot of folders so I can restore the MO folders and configuration files), but since this works for Fallout NV I expect there won't be any problems using it for UI mods in Fallout 3. I'll put it in the Fallout 3 guide. My MO is currently configured to prefer the internal FOMM installer. Does this need to change with the new client?

EssArrBee · December 6, 2014

I think it automatically recognizes the type of installer MO should use based on the presence of a Java or C# script.

EDIT: I asked the author of the new installer and he said Fallout 3 should not have any issues.

Kelmych · December 6, 2014

can you post your modlist so I can compare them to see if I did it correctly?
I'll provide this soon

revolver Millenia replacer
I should be clearer on my misunderstanding.
Its easy to miss "Now open the referenced FNV mod archive file and copy the "meshes", "sound", and "textures" folders into the mod, then close the Explorer window."

Maybe something along the lines of:
Now open the FNV equivalent mod, [https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/49293 Smith and Wesson M10 38 special] and copy the "meshes", "sound", and "textures" folders into the mod, then close the Explorer window.

I think the underline and blue text will help with visibility
added to guide

20th Century Weapons

xCALIBR_20CW is still mentioned
"The ''CALIBR.esm'' and "xCALIBR_20CW" files should be eliminated during installation, or moved to ''Optional ESPs'' after installation."
fixed in guide

Retextured Labels - Food - Abraxo - Detergent
Is completely overwritten by MG clutter
I show 5 textures overwritten by MG clutter and 2 remaining from this mod

Idk about you but I like a ton of radio stations and they should be merge-able. Maybe a section dedicated to compatible and decent radio stations may be worth while.
I use some radio stations, but apparently not as many as you. I added a new section for radio stations, moved two existing mods into the section, and noted that you will be adding additional radio station mods. You can send me a list to add, or even better add them to the guide and I'll edit if needed

Robco Certfied FIX for Paradox EVE users is obsolete and redundant because of the one that is located on the EVE - Energy Visuals Enhanced page. the one on the eve page is the newer version.

Robco Certfied
I dont think any patches are needed but you'll need to double check because
* RobCo Certified v2 Impervious FWE
* RobCo Certified v2 Impervious
* RobCo Certified v2 EVE
are all missing a master

*RobCo Certified v2 FWE

isnt that included in the omnipatch?
I revised the Robco Certified instructions again and this time they should be correct

Thanks again for all the help

Note that with this guide update FOMM - fork is no longer needed.

hishutup · December 7, 2014

The Mantis Imperative
I missed the bit about which plugins to disable.
maybe something like the following..
Hide ALL plugins except the following:
*The Mantis Imperative - Mantis
*The Mantis Imperative - Jello
*The Mantis Imperative - Nasty Zeta No Scaling

I forget where but I got the impression to follow what loot says

so I guess I am going through the mods and adding the bash tags so here is a list

*ArefuExpandedByAzar.esm

Add: Factions, Invent

*FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm

Remove: Names (if using MMM)

*Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

Add: Relev

*20th Century Weapons.esm

Add: Scripts

*RH_IRONSIGHTS.esm

Add: Inven

*PlasmaRifleAwesomefied.esp

Add: Sound, Stats

*RagdollOverhaulFo3.esp

Add: Actors.Skeleton

*AnimatedFanV2f3.esp

Add: Destructible

*FO3_WRP.esp

Add: Graphics

*FeralGhoulTest.esp

Add: Relev

*GNR Enhanced.esp

Add: Scripts

*tubRRCompound.esp

Add: Actors.AIPackages, Actors.Stats, Inven, Scripts

*FasterMorePowerfulMines.esp

Add: Stats

*FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp

Add: Names

*PPA - FWE Tougher NPC Power Armour.esp

Add: Relev

*Paradise Lost - Unique Texture and Icon.esp

Add: Graphics

*UUF3P - FWE Patch.esp

Add: Deflst, Factions, Invent, Scripts, Stats

*WinterizedT51bDX.esp

Add: Scripts

*Blackened FWE + MMM + EVE + Project Beauty.esp

Add: Actors.Stats, Factions, Invent, Names, Relev, Scripts

*BornAgain Outcast v3.esp

Add: Graphics, Names, Relev

*The Mantis Imperative - Jello.esp

Add: Relev

*YearlingBooks.esp

Add: Scripts

*DelaySteel.esp

Add: Scripts

*RH_WMK_Bridge.esp

Add: Delev, Relev

*PlasmaRifleAwesomefiedWMK.esp

Add: Sound, Stats

*Millenia_AK47_replacer.esp

Add: Graphics, Names, Stats

*20th Century Weapons -Plus- Reborn FWE-WMK-Calibr14_V1_70RC_18668.esp

Add: Names, Relev, Stats

*Dragonskin Tactical Outfit.esp

Add: Graphics

*DTOForFWE.esp

Add: Graphics, Stats

*Caravan Merchants Heal After Combat.esp

Add: Scripts

*PPA - FWE 2.esp

Add: Stats

*Brahmin Dairy Products.esp

Add: Relev

*ZL-ACR.esp

Add: Stats

*ACRForFWE.esp

Add: Stats

*ZL-SVD-CALIBR.esp

Add: Stats

*delayzeta.esp

Add: Scripts

*ZL-MP5 Pack.esp

Add: Stats

*MP5ForFWE.esp

Add: Stats

*SVDForFWE.esp

Add: Stats

*20th_Century_Weapons -Plus- Reborn_v1_70RC-18668_Ironsights_v1_1.esp

Add: Graphics, Names, Stats

*32S&W.esp

Add: Graphics, Stats

*Millenia_C96_replacer.esp

Add: Graphics, Names, Stats

*PLFewerItems.esp

Add: Delev, Relev

I am tired after writing this... Now time to look through some records

for the Creating a Bashed Patch

In the Bashed Patch menu in the left pane make sure all these check boxes are ticked: Merge Patches, Import Actors, Import Actors: AIPackages, Import Actors: Death Items, Import Cells, Import Destructible, Import Factions, Import Graphics, Import Inventory, Import NPC Faces, Import Names, Import Scripts, Import Sounds, Import Stats, Tweak Settings, Content Checker, FormID Lists, Leveled Lists, Race Records.

Maybe something like...

In the Bashed Patch menu in the left pane check the following boxes:
*Merge Patches
*Import Actors
*Import Actors: AIPackages
*Import Actors: Death Items
*Import Cells
*Import Destructible
*Import Factions
*Import Graphics
*Import Inventory
*Import NPC Faces
*Import Names
*Import Scripts
*Import Sounds
*Import Stats
*Tweak Settings
*Content Checker
*FormID Lists
*Leveled Lists
*Race Records

OR

In the Bashed Patch menu in the left pane check ALL but the following boxes:
*Alias Mod Names
*Replace Form IDs
*Import Actors: Animations
*Import Relations
*Import Roads
*Import Script Contents
*Globals
*Tweak Assorted
*Tweak Names

Why is do you not have Import Relations checked?

hmm, I loaded the entire LO in XEdit
and found some interesting stuff

[00:32] Background Loader: [RobCo Certified v2.esm] Building reference info.
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Errors were found in: a0aRobcoWeaknessEnergyMGEF "Reduce En. Res." [MGEF:1D01F190]
[00:32] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID FULL DESC DATA ESCE ESCE ESCE ESCE
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Errors were found in: a0aRobcoWeaknessFireMGEF "Reduce Fire Res." [MGEF:1D01F191]
[00:32] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID FULL DESC DATA ESCE
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:32] Background Loader: Errors were found in: a0aRobcoToolAbsorberMGEF "Absorber Goo" [MGEF:1D0362EF]
[00:32] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID FULL DESC DATA ESCE ESCE ESCE ESCE ESCE ESCE ESCE ESCE
[00:33] Background Loader: [tubrrCompound.esm] Building reference info.

[00:35] Background Loader: [tubRRCompound.esp] Building reference info.
[00:35] Background Loader: Error: record ACHR contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord XOWN 4E574F58
[00:35] Background Loader: Errors were found in: [ACHR:4701E699] (places tubRRGuardWithRifleIdling [NPC_:4701E697] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:0001BC91] (in DCworld12 "Seward Square" [WRLD:0001A264] at 0,0))
[00:35] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: NAME XOWN XESP DATA
[00:35] Background Loader: Error: record ACHR contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord XOWN 4E574F58
[00:35] Background Loader: Errors were found in: [ACHR:4701F405] (places tubRRGuardWithRifleIdling [NPC_:4701E697] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:0001BC91] (in DCworld12 "Seward Square" [WRLD:0001A264] at 0,0))
[00:35] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: NAME XOWN XESP DATA
[00:35] Background Loader: Error: record ACHR contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord XOWN 4E574F58
[00:35] Background Loader: Errors were found in: [ACHR:4701F406] (places tubRRGuardWithRifleIdling [NPC_:4701E697] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:0001BC91] (in DCworld12 "Seward Square" [WRLD:0001A264] at 0,0))
[00:35] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: NAME XOWN XESP DATA
[00:35] Background Loader: Error: record ACHR contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord XOWN 4E574F58
[00:35] Background Loader: Errors were found in: [ACHR:4701F407] (places tubRRGuardWithRifleIdling [NPC_:4701E697] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:0001BC91] (in DCworld12 "Seward Square" [WRLD:0001A264] at 0,0))
[00:35] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: NAME XOWN XESP DATA
[00:35] Background Loader: Error: record ACHR contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord XOWN 4E574F58
[00:35] Background Loader: Errors were found in: [ACHR:470201B4] (places tubRRGuardWithRifle [NPC_:4701E689] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:0001BC91] (in DCworld12 "Seward Square" [WRLD:0001A264] at 0,0))
[00:35] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: NAME XOWN XLKR XESP DATA
[00:35] Background Loader: Error: record ACHR contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord XOWN 4E574F58
[00:35] Background Loader: Errors were found in: [ACHR:47026CA7] (places tubRRGuardWithRifleIdling [NPC_:4701E697] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:0001BC91] (in DCworld12 "Seward Square" [WRLD:0001A264] at 0,0))
[00:35] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: NAME XOWN XESP DATA
[00:35] Background Loader: [MoreMapMarkers.esp] Building reference info.

[00:36] Background Loader: [HeirApparent.esp] Building reference info.
[00:36] Background Loader: Error: record MGEF contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ESCE 45435345
[00:36] Background Loader: Errors were found in: PM2MalaAcidEffect "Mala Acid" [MGEF:4D0C3D40]
[00:36] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID FULL DESC DATA ESCE
[00:36] Background Loader: [FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp] Building reference info.

[00:40] Background Loader: [bashed Patch, 0.esp] Building reference info.
[00:40] Background Loader: Error: record WEAP contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord MICO 4F43494D
[00:40] Background Loader: Errors were found in: Weap20centCARM635ColtDrumSemiSilent "M-635 CAR Colt Drum Semi Silenced" [WEAP:15030935]
[00:40] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL MODL MICO NAM0 REPL ETYP MOD2 MOD4 INAM SNAM XNAM TNAM NAM9 NAM8 DATA DNAM CRDT VNAM
[00:41] Background Loader: finished

I'll look at it but I dont know what if its harmful... Idk anything about out of order records...

At first I thought it was talking about out of order masters... Thats going to happen because LOOT...

EDIT: I think WB didnt select all of the boxes and this may have been the cause of all of the weirdness below...
Okay its happened twice now... Maybe you add a note about double checking to see if the boxes are checked.

Im looking through the records and bashed patch is overwriting the Blackened patch...
in the weapon group I see a lot of clip size and Attack Shots/sec mismatch...
its weird because.... Pic time
here are some examples

more weirdness... My guess this is why you dont use Relations

I added relations tag to ArefulExpandedByAzar.esm and Blackend FWE + MMM + EVE + Project Beauty.esp just to see... Oh that is MUCH better

I dont even know with this one....

here is a patch for you to look at...

I think it is done correctly but what do you think.

hmm, What mods are you requiring to be used in your guide.

There is quite a bit that should be patched...

Most of it isn't super critical but rather consistency reasons

Kelmych · December 7, 2014

Any bash tags in LOOT are automatically used by Wrye Flash; you don't need to manually add them. You only need to add ones that aren't in LOOT. The guide has a list of ones that aren't in LOOT; most of these are ones that the LOOT team feels aren't generally applicable, but for this particular guide they are needed. I do use the relations tag sometime, but usually I find the Factions tag is more important (e.g., for the Arefu mod). I'll add the relations tag to the list in the guide, however, since it might be useful on a few situations.

I've been concentrating the last month or so on playing through the game so I could determine what to put in the recommended in game settings, and on any potential quest-related compatibility problems. I've noticed that the compatibility patches and bashed patch take care of a lot of the issues, but there is still a lot of patching that needs to be added. I've been awaiting the new 3.0.33 version of xEdit that will include additional support for using sets of small patches, each one providing compatibility among a few mods. The beta version has this, but it's still in development.

I haven't seen a lot of new useful Fallout 3 mods lately; there are a few I need to add to the Mods thread but not many. I haven't seen any user comments on the quest mods in the list of potential quest additions in the guide. The recent MO NCC file will likely reduce or eliminate the FOMM issues. So patches are the next area that needs attention. I'll look at the patch you posted.

hishutup · December 7, 2014

The bash tags I listed were ones that were not automatically added.

Loot is definitely not always correct.

Wryebash cant patch everything. Like the worldsoace group.

Kelmych · December 28, 2014

LOOT doesn't have all the updates I sent in yet, so I'll add the ones that are not in the masterlist to the guide. Many of the ones mentioned in hishutup's Bash tag list are in the current LOOT masterlist (e.g., ArefuExpandedByAzar.esm). Wrye Flash has significant limitations on which record types it handles, and even then it doesn't always make the desired choices. Some additional patches are needed to get the proper record values.

hishutup · December 28, 2014

all of them are recommended by loot but did not appear in Wryebash. That is the purpose of that list.

Kelmych · December 28, 2014

Which version of Wrye Flash and LOOT are you using?For me all of the tags in the masterlist have been showing up in Wrye Flash.

hishutup · December 28, 2014

Loot was the one that is imbeded in mo. And I think 305.

In all the times I modded the tags never auto loaded for me. Is that something that is supposed to happen?

GrantSP · December 28, 2014

If you are relying on the 'Sort' function in MO to be updated with the latest masterlists from LOOT, you need to install LOOT as an executable and run it at least once from inside MO first. Afterwards 'Sort' will use the updated masterlists.

hishutup · December 29, 2014

I have done that and even in the times where MO wasnt a thing I never seen BOSS or even loot for that matter add the bash tags to mods.

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