ACCEPTED RUSTIC WINDOWS by Gamwich

[TechAngel85]

The problem with your argument for "realism" is that your definition of realism here is not based on the real world, but a subjective sense of what should or should not be real for Skyrim.  So when others feel that something else seems appropriate to the TES world, something that doesn't meet your subjective standards of "realism" then they are suddenly opposed to realism?  It's not like thick textured glass doesn't exist in our world. 

I can see you're point if you simply read that and nothing else from my post. However, take the rest of my post into context and you would be wrong in your assumptions as I specifically give a few examples of when and how I would compare Skyrim to the real world. It's a balance...

 

"Is that how aspen trees look in our world? Yep, that looks realistic."

 

"Would that supporting beam hold that building up in the real world if built like that? Nope... that's not realistic."

 

"Could mages make windows in Skyrim? Possibly. Is there anything in Skyrim or Lore that supports this? Nope/not to my knowledge. What's the logical conclusion based on real world knowledge? Smiths most likely to manufacture windows as they already have the smelters in place to do so. Is that logic sound? Yep."

 

That is how my brain works when I'm evaluating mods for realism and whether or not they would logically fit into the Skryim realm.

 

Fact of the matter is, there are hundreds of things in the Skyrim realm (plants, animals, buildings, weathers, weapons, etc) that you would find in the real world. You can't discount the real world just like you can't discount the fantasy aspect of Skyrim (magic, dragons, walking dead, etc). Balance!

[Guest]

Please give me an example in any fiction piece where the world or characters are not based on anything from this world. If you think the developers did not look at real-world glass from what looks like the middle-ages then you are high.  

 

*hides* 

[kryptopyr]

"Would smiths be more likely to cast thick, durable glass using their smelters (glass that would both insulate and provide better protection from the harsh land that is Skyrim), or would they choose to blow thin panes of glass (a much more specialized skill than casting it) that would take more time and be more likely to break?"  The logical conclusion is that they would choose the most effective product for their environment, which also happens to require less time and training to provide.  I agree with you that I don't think mages would be bothering with windows, and I don't see any reason to bring magic into it, but the thicker glass just seems more appropriate and logical to me. 

 

At this point, I think we've probably given the glass in Skyrim far more thought and consideration than Bethesda's designers did.  I don't really think they thought all that hard about their design choices for the glass in the windows and whether or not it was appropriate for the climate, times, lore, etc.  I think they had many more (and presumably more important) things to concern themselves with.  Maybe I'm high, but, no, I don't think they sought out examples of medieval glass.  Yes, I'm sure they drew inspiration from our world, but I don't think they went to the trouble to research every aspect and detail from a historical (even quasi-historical) perspective.

 

It's been fun, but honestly guys, I really don't have a horse in this race.  I like this mod, but I also like VW.  I think either are fine for STEP.  I'll probably end up using a combination of the two.  I just don't care for the way the argument is being framed as for/against realism, when I don't really see that as the primary issue here.  I think you can logically justify either type of glass based on what we know (and don't know) about the technology of Skyrim, so just decide what looks better in game and when used with other STEP textures.

[TechAngel85]

I smell a party pooper... haha!

 

All joking aside, you are correct in several of those statements. I'll just leave it at that.

 

Pretty much everyone has already spoken their peace on this mod, I'm just enjoying the debate.

 

As it stands it's 8 for and 6 against (more staff against than for). I'm not really comfortable deciding for or against on such a close to 50/50 split. I'm starting to think this is one of those mods that we just need to leave out because users are so split on its use. idk...

[redirishlord]

FWIW: Gamwich has an updated v1.3 available now.

[Kuldebar]

Rustic Windows Version 1.3

 

All windows have been replaced with cheese:

 

Whiterun: Cheddar

Solitude: Blue Cheese

Windehelm: Blue Stilton

High Hrothgar: Munster

Riften: Schabziger

Farmhouse: Velveeta

[z929669]

Just chiming in here ... late to the party (sorry).

 

Realism is good, but this is a fantasy game, so fantasy lighting and looks (and contrary exceptions) are warranted. Nevertheless, I do think that all things in Skyrim --with regard to behavior and appearance-- should do its best to emulate reality wherever possible and wherever it makes sense. Adhere to the laws of physics wherever magic is not inferred.

 

That said, I think that Rustic Windows ('RW' is conflated with Realistic Water) is just too bright in many cases, particularly in the daylight. Nice mod, but not something I would necessarily use for my own game. Windows don't glow outside in the daylight! i have the same problem with fire and lightsprites in the daylight. These are some of my biggest nitpicks ... these are also elements that can be controlled by ENB (often improperly), but ENB is strictly not our concern in any screen compares, and it should not be used. I am assuming that Tech's screens have all been under vanilla lighting, so my argument stands.

 

Based on the info presented in this thread, I think Visible Windows is just more believable all around and that it also looks better in most situations. More detail is not always better IMHO. I also vote this down for STEP:Extended for same reasons.

 

DISCLAIMER: Ultimately, I would have to play extensively with this mod to decide for sure.

[Kuldebar]

That said, I think that Rustic Windows.... is just too bright in many cases, particularly in the daylight.

 

There's a reduced glow version...ENB's cause some variance.

[TechAngel85]

There's a reduced glow version...ENB's cause some variance.

All my screen where under vanilla lighting with the reduced glow version installed.

[TechAngel85]

With Z's words added which reflect my own and other staff who down voted this, I think we're going to drop this from Testing. The split for users is too close to 50/50 and the majority of staff has voted against it. This is a mod that deviates from vanilla in most aspects making it far more of a personal choice rather than something that the majority is going to enjoy and like.

 

I encourage users who do like the look to use Rustic Windows as a personal mod; however, as for it being in STEP, I feel enough staff has voted against it to leave it out. If there are no arguments to this, I'll drop the mod from Testing.

[phryxolydian]

Ugh, I think I heard an anime boy wearing glasses roar a triumphant YES! with a fist pump when I read your post, z. OK, show's over. 

 

To be fair, I think there still were quite a bit more yeses than nos.

[TechAngel85]

 

To be fair, I think there still were quite a bit more yeses than nos.

I just when back and did a tally of those that specifically said yes or no...

 

Total

Yes: 7

No: 6

 

Staff

Yes: 3

No: 4

 

I think it's rather fair to say too close to call. Something that is so close is rarely added into STEP because it portrays how divided the users (and staff) are.

[redirishlord]

I assume STEP is looking for something near a consensus to include something, which makes sense. Of course not being included doesn't prevent anuone from using the mod, and I assume the thread will remain (lively debate and all) to inform anyone searching the Mods section of the forum.

[TechAngel85]

I assume STEP is looking for something near a consensus to include something, which makes sense. Of course not being included doesn't prevent anuone from using the mod, and I assume the thread will remain (lively debate and all) to inform anyone searching the Mods section of the forum.

You assume correctly. Most mods added are by a far closer user consensus and with the majority of staff approval. These thread always remain! We don't censor this stuff.

 

It's just a texture replacement so using it won't hurt a STEP install. Anyone who likes it can use it with STEP, just like any other texture mods that aren't in STEP.

[Livnthedream]

I personally like this for the glow effect. It looks amazing with the dark/moody enbs.