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RUSTIC WINDOWS by Gamwich


Kuldebar

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Actually, you're wrong on that point for at least two cases: aMidianBorn Caves (SRO in Core) and Ren's HD Shrines (Mystery Modder's HD Shrines).

Forgot about the Shrines. You're right, that is one case. I'm not counting SRO conflicts. Nearly every texture mod, Core or Extended, will overwrite SRO in one way or another. That's basically like saying mods will overwrite vanilla files. :lol:

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I thought we were dropping MM Shrines from Core since they are just vanilla textures with noise added on top. Either way I like these windows. The are closer to original game than VW. VW changes the actual color of some windows. I think the Dragonreach windows go from blue to yellow, that is a bigger departure from the original windows than adding a rough texture to them. Especially since there doesn't seem to be any transparent windows, so the color is more important.

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I thought we were dropping MM Shrines from Core since they are just vanilla textures with noise added on top. Either way I like these windows. The are closer to original game than VW. VW changes the actual color of some windows. I think the Dragonreach windows go from blue to yellow, that is a bigger departure from the original windows than adding a rough texture to them. Especially since there doesn't seem to be any transparent windows, so the color is more important.

Someone said we were keeping MM Shrines from some reason...don't remember why. I wasn't a part of those decisions.

 

Closer to the original??? Rustic not only changes color but design, style and texture as well, especially in Solitude. No idea how you see them as closer to vanilla than VW which just changes some colors here and there. VW color changes actually match the environment and surrounding textures better than Rustic's colors and added textures do, imo.

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I think if the author were to make a version that replaced the panes with more vanilla friendly ones, I could probably go for this mod. Opening the textures up in Photoshop will reveal the nice work he did with the window hardware; however, I can't get past the textures in the panes.

 

Riften:

Posted Image

 

He looks like he tried to imitate privacy glass which is made in molds:

Posted Image

 

Looking at the farmhouse texture in Photoshop, it's very clear the design is like those of the glass brick squares found in bathrooms:

Posted Image

 

Solitude with a modern texture design:

Posted ImagePosted Image

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Now the windows with different colors made me curious so fired up the meshes. 

 

Issue is that there is no refraction involved since the windows are just a glow shader and nothing else. The refraction part of the engine is not used at all. 

However they do have identical values in the glow shader.. and the only difference I could just find is that they have slightly different vertex color values... so I guess that is why. 

 

Oh well back to messing with crystals for me instead of windows for now! 

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TechAngel85, on 08 Jun 2014 - 3:41 PM, said:TechAngel85, on 08 Jun 2014 - 3:41 PM, said:TechAngel85, on 08 Jun 2014 - 3:41 PM, said:TechAngel85, on 08 Jun 2014 - 3:41 PM, said:

I think if the author were to make a version that replaced the panes with more vanilla friendly ones, I could probably go for this mod. Opening the textures up in Photoshop will reveal the nice work he did with the window hardware; however, I can't get past the textures in the panes. He looks like he tried to imitate privacy glass which is made in molds...

Yes, you are right, Gamwich is using rough cast glass as the core idea behind his treatment of windows. I can see why you'd think it was anachronistic, but thick textured/rough glass is the oldest type in existence; the clear thinner types required a lot more specialized treatments/techniques.

 

But, this isn't a bad decision in my opinion because it is exactly what the Romans did in their early windows.

 

Posted Image

 

 

 

QuoteQuoteQuoteThe earliest panes were rough cast into a wooden frame on top of a layer of sand or stone, but from the late 3rd century onwards window glass was made by the muff process, where a blown cylinder was cut laterally and flattened out to produce a sheet.

-wiki

 

No Pane, No Gain!

 

Quote

Roman glassmakers employed two differing processes for producing window panes. The earlier method is known as "cast glass", and produces panes of uneven thickness that are fire polished, or "glossy" on one side, and pitted, with a matt finish on the other...However, the precise technique of making cast glass has been lost since the Romans ceased to use it in the 3rd century AD. It has often been suggested that molten glass was poured into a mould in much the same way metals are cast. Some of the arguments against such a method are that it would not reproduce both the forms of the edges and corners and the tool marks seen on original Roman glass.

 

Edited by Kuldebar
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"Clear thinner types" were first made in the 3rd century (300AD). This technique was lost but rediscovered in the middle ages. Since glass windows are fairly common in Skyrim, I would say Skyrim's time period is advanced enough to make clear, thin glass for windows.

 

Who thought by reading this thread they'd be getting a history lesson on window glass? ::P:

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Well it has been quite some time since we where nit picking over the finer points of history vs fantasy! :) 

 

But really skyrim once upon a time had robots that worked via a mix of steam and magic... so why not just about any window type we can come up with. 

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Okay, I think there is sufficient evidence for and against this mod for Extended. Lets cast our final votes (please have loaded these and tested them out in-game and think in terms of STEP before casting a vote either way)

 

For (yes):

EssArrBee, redirishlord, Kuldebar, phazer11

 

Against (no):

TechAngel, DoubleYou, WilliamImm, Nearox (not for STEP, likes it personally), keithinhanoi (not for STEP, likes it personally)

 

No one else has said a definitive "yes" or "no" for Extended inclusion...just a lot of debating.

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Thanks for tallying my vote Tech, I feel like family now :-)

 

As for Ren's Shrines, they look so good I've forgotten what vanilla looked like. After checking some pics it looks like Ren's are quite close to vanilla, just enhanced color/texture and subtly different alternate versions. I'd vote for those too.

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As much as I like RW, and will continue to keep in my load out (except Riften,) I have to agree that overall it deviates from the vanilla too far to keep within the STEP mantra.

 

In particular, it fits with the idea of the line under things that "STEP is not about..." which says "Graphics mods that contrast with vanilla Skyrim in terms of appearance and practicality".

 

So I casting my very first vote against including this in STEP.

 

Thanks for all of the really interesting reading and the lively debate!

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