LOOT (by WrinklyNinja & Team)

[GrantSP]

Wow - the load order is a lot different.  Just hand me the gun now... so I can shoot myself.  Now I have to go through my entire list of mods and re-evaluate my conflict resolutions and custom patch.  Why did it change so much?

I don't know, but supposedly it'll be much more consist and stable now. I haven't had any issues with loading saves or anything yet.

I agree the new ordering at first did throw me, and I let rip at them at first without examining what had actually changed, but after a close examination, and some helpful correction from the LOOT team, I can safely say there is no issue with the new way the plugins are ordered.

 

Simply put if a plugin isn't explicitly needed to be placed immediately after or before another, it can be alphabetically listed with all the others in the same category.

 

@Wrinklninja has implemented a "human-readable" style of sorting and after the initial shock wears off it works really well.

Upshot of this is... if it isn't broken in xEdit, then it isn't broken in LOOT, or to put it another way... before we say the loadorder is wrong check it with xEdit.

[keithinhanoi]

The blank screen bug is discussed in this issue on Tannin's bugtracker, and the replication steps for it (well, to some degree), were discovered by GrandSP and me here.

 

In short, if you start MO through a download and then want to start LOOT from within MO, LOOT's UI is occasionally blank. It also seems that this sometimes happens to people, who have Steam/Skyrim/MO/LOOT within the C:\Program Files\ folder, which is, as we know, a through UAC rights-restriced folder.

 

In any case, adding the --single-process argument to LOOT within MO's 'Modify Executable' window should stop the blank screen from happening (I did verify that here back in December 2014).

Okay, well I spoke too soon. Somehow I also got the blank LOOT UI, using MO 1.2.18 installed in my /skyrim directory, with my skyrim installed to a non-boot volume using the Steam Library Folders feature. So no UAC. TBH, I don't know if I fired up MO by clicking a Nexus download link, but my fix was just to quit LOOT, run it outside of MO, quit it, and then when I ran it using MO, the UI displayed fine again.

 

I will try the steps to reproduce the issue and then if that checks out, I'll use the --single-process arg. But what does that arg do, anyhow? Disallow multi-threaded processes? Does it make LOOT slower?

I agree the new ordering at first did throw me, and I let rip at them at first without examining what had actually changed, but after a close examination, and some helpful correction from the LOOT team, I can safely say there is no issue with the new way the plugins are ordered.

 

The only unsafe thing is to change the load order of your plugins and then load your save of an in-progress play through. That can wreak all kinds of havok - the least of which being orphaned script instances and issues with aliases not working.

[oqhansoloqo]

Yes, I've been examining the changes for the past couple hours and so far it seems to have ended up working well...

[alt3rn1ty]

@Wrinklninja has implemented a "human-readable" style of sorting and after the initial shock wears off it works really well.

Upshot of this is... if it isn't broken in xEdit, then it isn't broken in LOOT, or to put it another way... before we say the loadorder is wrong check it with xEdit.

That part of the 6 or 7 load ordering steps which LOOT does has been updated again since to lessen the transition impact from 0.6 to 0.7. It still does that step, but its been refined to try and preserve plugins places in the load order where plugins have no specific position that needs to be adhered to.

 

https://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1516193-rel-loot-thread-18/page-2?do=findComment&comment=23946221

[GrantSP]

That part of the 6 or 7 load ordering steps which LOOT does has been updated again since to lessen the transition impact from 0.6 to 0.7. It still does that step, but its been refined to try and preserve plugins places in the load order where plugins have no specific position that needs to be adhered to.

 

https://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1516193-rel-loot-thread-18/page-2?do=findComment&comment=23946221

Thank you. So much work going on over there it is always good to be reminded of new action.

[alt3rn1ty]

Wrinkly has made a couple of blog posts User Interface Overhaul, and Sorting Improvements

 

That last one reference sorting is a good one to bookmark if anyone asks "Whats does LOOT do exactly when you click "Sort"" ( Propellor hat needed, plus coffee )

[TechAngel85]

Going to read right now, .

[GrantSP]

Don't have my 'propeller hat', but I do have coffee. Ahh... coffee.

[keithinhanoi]

</tinfoil hat>

 

<propeller hat>

 

On a more serious side note, Wrinkly really should apply to work on Google's Google Apps UI team.

[pStyl3]

Sorry for the late answers. Far too much to do in too little time.

 

You should gather more information, such as OS, install location, and similar. It probably is something simple.

Good advice, unfortunately people often have stopped providing information, once they found out that the --single-process argument successfully bypassed their problem. But I will still try to gather information, as always.

 

 

<snip>

 

Most my system stats can be found in my signature.

Thank you. So UAC is not a problem on your end and you are still getting the blank screen, even if you start MO the normal way. Hmm .. does the problem still occur for you, if Steam is not running in the background (so without Steam running, open MO and then try to run LOOT without the --single-process argument)? Do you automatically login to Nexus, if MO is started? And how many entries/plugins do you have in the left and right pane? Does the situation change, if you start LOOT from within MO with a vanilla profile (in MO)?

 

 

Okay, well I spoke too soon. Somehow I also got the blank LOOT UI, using MO 1.2.18 installed in my /skyrim directory, with my skyrim installed to a non-boot volume using the Steam Library Folders feature. So no UAC. TBH, I don't know if I fired up MO by clicking a Nexus download link, but my fix was just to quit LOOT, run it outside of MO, quit it, and then when I ran it using MO, the UI displayed fine again.

 

I will try the steps to reproduce the issue and then if that checks out, I'll use the --single-process arg. But what does that arg do, anyhow? Disallow multi-threaded processes? Does it make LOOT slower?

If I recall correctly, I have verified the blank screen bug with all MO versions since 1.2.14 (and most of LOOT snapshot builds since Alpha 4 .. I believe).

 

Regarding the --single-process argument, I recall wrinklyninja saying, that it has something to do with the quality of font rendering (but no guarantee on that).

[DoubleYou]

Related guide updates:

• Updated with the fact that LOOT is auto-detected by Mod Organizer
• Moved info about using LOOT with multiple games into the proper format.
• Added link to the LOOT Meta Rule Instructions
• Added notice about --single-process argument fix for users who may experience a blank window at startup.
• Updated LOOT Meta Rule Instructions to reflect changes in version 0.7.

[pStyl3]

wrinklyninja has uploaded LOOT 0.7.1 as the new official version!

 

Bethsoft Forum

Download - GitHub

Edited June 22, 2015 by pStyl3

[Kelmych]

All through the development of LOOT 0.7, as well as in the current LOOT 0.7.1, I've had problems with manually entering metadata for dirty mods. I enter the data but it won't accept it; if I click the green checkmark nothing happens. Am I the only user with this problem. This didn't happen in all the beta versions of LOOT 0.7, but it did in most of them.

[GrantSP]

No, I'm not getting any problems with adding metadata.

[pStyl3]

Kelmych, please enable debug logging in LOOT's settings menu, then try to replicate the issue. Once it has occured, go to C:\%LOCALAPPDATA%\LOOT\.. and upload (the content of) the two files CEFDebugLog.txt and LOOTDebugLog.txt (e.g. pastebin.com).