ACCEPTED XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended (by Groovtama)

[Nebulous112]

Lore friendly?! Nipple magic definitely wants to be more than just friends. LOL

 

On another note, XPMSE has just updated to version 3.5, to coincide with FNIS just updating to 6.1.

 

Together, these updates should apparently get rid of any remaining issues with custom animations that users were reporting.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Nebulous112

[spaceoden]

downside of extended: page is sfw

[elwaps]

I don't see how being SFW could be a downside ^^

 

Anything special to look after when replacing XP32 with XP32E in a full STEP installation? That would be my next step in my installation as I'm going for UNP & HDT.

[t3h0th3r]

 

Anything special to look after when replacing XP32 with XP32E in a full STEP installation? That would be my next step in my installation as I'm going for UNP & HDT.

Out with the old in with the new, make sure you get the minimal required versions of FNIS, RM or NiO.

 

Also, after almost 6 Months of testing, has a final decision been made, whetere or not to include this mod?

Edited December 11, 2015 by t3h0th3r

[Greg]

I've been using XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended for the past week and initially it seemed to be good alternative for XP32 Maximum Skeleton. It does support a lot more options, includes more animation in the box, and has a nice MCM menu to customize the options. I initially didn't notice any differences aesthetically between the two mods.

 

Over the course of my playthrough I began noticing my autosaves and quicksaves taking a lot more time. When I stopped Friday night, it was taking roughly 15 to 20 seconds for a quick save and about as long for an auto save when crossing a boundary (say an exterior to interior boundary). The odd thing is that Skyrim hangs (only background music playing, no animations at all) with no disk activity for about 20 seconds and then I see the quicksave.ess saved really quickly.

 

To rule out the possibility of something else causing this issue, I setup a completely new playthrough yesterday using STEP 2.2.9.2 Extended (with XP Maximum Skeleton) and played for a few hours. Auto saves and quick saves are lightning fast with no delays at all. I then deleted all my saves, switched in XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended, and created a new character on a new game. When quick saving, I notice Skyrim hangs for a second or two before it creates the quicksave.ess file on a new character.

 

I also see a few posts in various places indicating XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended may be causing lags with quick saves for some other users although these posts quote something like 10 seconds. I'll keep playing to see if the long lag returns. I'm also curious if anyone else has reproduced this issue with XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended?

[Rebel47]

I have been using XPMSE since it was just "Groovtama's" on XP32's page and having recently upgraded to XPMSE 3.67 I have not had any issues whatsoever, the update coupled with FNIS V6+ now allows you to select up to 4 ( I think, could be 5 ) folders to store animations in which can then be changed to "on the fly" in game via MCM,

 

I think the differences between the 2 are not aesthetic at all and so looking for some in that area will net you zero results, I believe the differences are in functionality and versatility, I have spent so many hours just playing Skyrim with XPMSE installed and not once have I encountered what I would consider to be a long pause during saving, I do not use "quicksave" or "autosave" I find they are both detrimental to the health of my savegame so remain true to my initial manual save only option ( I do not even use Cipcis' CASM )

Edited December 28, 2015 by Rebel47

[TechAngel85]

Thanks for the input from both of you. It's good to know that manual saves are likely working as intended. I'm interested in the autosave lagging though. I'll have this installed on my next game so I'll keep an eye out for it.

[Neovalen]

I've had no lags, been using it a very long time...

[Groovtama]

The reason for the longer saving times is simple, the renderer\scripting runs on auto\quicksaves while on normal saves it does not (menu = renderer and papyrus freeze, visible by the freezing statement in your papyrus log), significally stealing CPU processing time for gathering NetImmerse Override and other SKSE plugins data (PapyrusUtil\JContainer depending on the mods also increase the time, they just do not havie heavy usage mods like XPMSE).

 

The two factors are basically:

Number of SKSE plugins that need to save data and amount of data they have to save, for XPMSE with NiO a typical ugrid 5 save with XPMSE it is roughly 500KB to 1MB, around max 2MB if you go with ugrid7, around 4-8MB with ugrid 9 and if you have to save 2MB with the renderer\scripting running that is pretty harsh for SKSE.

Dynamic XPMSE NiO data is depended on have many NPCs are in your current loaded area, which you as close as one cell radius. All of their dynamic generated data by XPMSE edits gets thrown away when they are unloaded from the game (CellDetach\3DUnload\Uninstallation). The only stuff semi-permanently (removed on removing XPMSE only) is the data you manually changed, for example you want your one follower to have a specific style for swords than everyone else via EFF. If you increase the loaded grid of Skyrim, more NPCs are kept loaded and thus their data is not removed from NetImmerse Override saving tasks.

Static XPMSE NiO data are edits you did manually, which is permanent and needs to be removed manually, like racemenu scale\position\location edits you do in racemenu for your character or follower via EFF, which is pretty small.

 

From my discussions with Expired, NiO only takes a relly small part of a second to save data on a quicksave even with 2-6MB of data, the renderer\scripting just extends it to oblivion, making it take seconds and making the save process take a long time. That is also why I can't fix the issue, because the data needs to be saved and I can't change skyrims saving behaviour and I am not considering moving data from NiO to the magic effect because somehow I get better feedback on performance\stability with data in NiO rather than the save. Because of the remove on uninstall luxus I have with NiO while on saves it is more the workaround with the skse garbage collector and not all people have that enabled by default.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Groovtama

[crustywithage]

Reminds me of the Monty Python sketch about the Spanish Inquisition

Michael Palin's character, Ximinez, has these lines:

Exactly what I was thinking, classic.

[Nebulous112]

Are there any recommended settings to test this mod? Are you guys installing the HDT Physics Extension and then choosing the HDT skeleton rig map in the FOMOD? Or going with the old XPMSE skeleton rig map (that it warns you against) to avoid installing HDT?

[Kesta]

You don't need HDT extensions to use the HDT Skeleton. As stated in the fomod description, this is a common skeleton for HDT-PE, HDT-SMP and disabled body-physic.

 

It's just that he is "HDT-ready". Unlike the others. The XPMSE version for STEP (if STEP move to XPMSE, and it should imo) is "Skeleton Rig Map (HDT)". CBE is in an experimental state, and last time I checked, fore said it wouldn't be compatible with the overhauled FNIS (v6.0+). Not even sure if zartar is still working on it.

 

Setting for STEP should be : ([ ] = unchecked, [x] = checked)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ ] SoS compatibility

[ ] ECE compatibility

(style randomizer is up to you)

 

[x] Default Animation Reset

[ ] Magic nipples stuffs

 

"None" for EVERY animations choice. Alternate animations (dual wielding or not)  are already built-in. Those choices are only intended for people using an actual animations replacer, so  the equip/unequip animations blend better with those from the replacer.

 

Extended Monster Skeletons (all of them).

 

Nothing on the First Person and Mounted Combat options.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Nebulous112]

Thanks, Kesta. :-)

 

As stated in the fomod description, this is a common skeleton for HDT-PE, HDT-SMP and disabled body-physic.

 

It was this line that I didn't (and still don't) understand. I assume STEP falls under the "disabled body-physic" category. The paraphrased term "disabled body physics" made me think of Realistic Ragdolls and Force, and I know that is in STEP.

 

Anyway, thanks for your help.

 

One last question: I assume for the Extended Creature Skeletons that one would have to add the Creature Pack from FNIS?

 

Edit: I meant Extended Monster Skeletons. Anyway, doing some testing, FNIS shows the same amount of animations, with and without the Creature Pack. There were no errors either way. I'm going to assume it doesn't make a difference one way or the other, as I think Fore would throw an error in the dialogue if it was needed.

[Groovtama]

Thanks, Kesta. :-)

 

It was this line that I didn't (and still don't) understand. I assume STEP falls under the "disabled body-physic" category. The paraphrased term "disabled body physics" made me think of Realistic Ragdolls and Force, and I know that is in STEP.

 

Anyway, thanks for your help.

 

One last question: I assume for the Extended Creature Skeletons that one would have to add the Creature Pack from FNIS?

 

Edit: I meant Extended Monster Skeletons. Anyway, doing some testing, FNIS shows the same amount of animations, with and without the Creature Pack. There were no errors either way. I'm going to assume it doesn't make a difference one way or the other, as I think Fore would throw an error in the dialogue if it was needed.

The "(HDT)" at the default rig map was added because people complained that they could not figure out from the installer what rig map they should use for HDT PE and because in the files it had "(HDT)" and people said it is so much easier to find it out to use that option that way instead of reading the descriptionm so I added the "(HDT)".

 

The default rig map is for HDT-PE, HDT-SMP, if you want to use HDT-PE\SMP without xml data for body physics, or if you don't want to use no HDT-PE\SMP or T\BBP at all. Because people are getting confused when I have an option for HDT and not for HDT at the same time, they would not realize that the rig map is not that important for HDT you just have to have a non-T\BBP one (and the skeleton nifs not screwed up that is why you can't use HDT PE with XPMS), they would ask me constantly what rig map to use, that is why I used the term "disabled body-physics"

 

Creature Skeletns have nothing to do with the FNIS Creature stuff, they are basically compatibility stuff for many Creature skeleton editing mods, like Mighty Beasts, some Vampire Lord bugfixes, some general bugfixes like potema with BBP enabled clothing, and transformation fixes for XPMSE RaceMenu NiO so when you transform from Human to Werewolves\Vampire Lord and back that the nodes are staying correctly scaled, otherwise NiO would cause some messups, because of node missmatching. Vampire Lord and Werewolf skeletons are basically fully required, but when I set anything required people complain that they have to install it.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Groovtama

[Nebulous112]

Thanks for the clarification, Groovtama. :-) It makes sense to me now.