GUIDE Skyrim Installation Guide

[Kelmych]

I'll try using this with the SIG DLC section since it is fairly short; we can then get an idea how effective it is. I'm assuming instructions would be in the body of the text with some extra explanations in the sidebar' date=' probably on the right. If that isn't the best way to do it let me know.[/quote']

That sounds perfect' date=' keep the body of it focused on what to do with auxiliary information on the sides.  [/quote']

It might be useful if the sidebar box could be a little shorter and the text be the same size as the normal text.

[Farlo]

I'll try using this with the SIG DLC section since it is fairly short; we can then get an idea how effective it is. I'm assuming instructions would be in the body of the text with some extra explanations in the sidebar' date=' probably on the right. If that isn't the best way to do it let me know.[/quote']

That sounds perfect' date=' keep the body of it focused on what to do with auxiliary information on the sides.  [/quote']

It might be useful if the sidebar box could be a little shorter and the text be the same size as the normal text.

I removed the minimum height but I'm not seeing a different font size (except for the heading of course).  When I'm not exhausted I'll see about making the heading and width optional as well.

[Kelmych]

I'll try using this with the SIG DLC section since it is fairly short; we can then get an idea how effective it is. I'm assuming instructions would be in the body of the text with some extra explanations in the sidebar' date=' probably on the right. If that isn't the best way to do it let me know.[/quote']

That sounds perfect' date=' keep the body of it focused on what to do with auxiliary information on the sides.  [/quote']

It might be useful if the sidebar box could be a little shorter and the text be the same size as the normal text.

I removed the minimum height but I'm not seeing a different font size (except for the heading of course).  When I'm not exhausted I'll see about making the heading and width optional as well.

When I look at it now it looks looks the font sizes are the same.

 

Probably more important is to see if the way I organized the content into the main body and sidebar seems useful for the topic of the page. In the process of editing the page, once I moved the system options section up, it didn't seem like some of the existing content was needed. I also simplified the material at the top of that page since there are more detailed discussions elsewhere.

[Farlo]

I'll try using this with the SIG DLC section since it is fairly short; we can then get an idea how effective it is. I'm assuming instructions would be in the body of the text with some extra explanations in the sidebar' date=' probably on the right. If that isn't the best way to do it let me know.[/quote']

That sounds perfect' date=' keep the body of it focused on what to do with auxiliary information on the sides.  [/quote']

It might be useful if the sidebar box could be a little shorter and the text be the same size as the normal text.

I removed the minimum height but I'm not seeing a different font size (except for the heading of course).  When I'm not exhausted I'll see about making the heading and width optional as well.

When I look at it now it looks looks the font sizes are the same.

 

Probably more important is to see if the way I organized the content into the main body and sidebar seems useful for the topic of the page. In the process of editing the page, once I moved the system options section up, it didn't seem like some of the existing content was needed. I also simplified the material at the top of that page since there are more detailed discussions elsewhere.

First things I noticed is that it's rather dense, or at least appears that way.  You're also not speaking in the third person in some places.  I'm making a pass and tried to simplify things a bit, only finished the 1GB section.  Once the DLC tab is finished I think we just need a review of the Steam and Mods tabs and we're good.

[Kelmych]

First things I noticed is that it's rather dense' date=' or at least appears that way.  You're also not speaking in the third person in some places.  I'm making a pass and tried to simplify things a bit, only finished the 1GB section.  Once the DLC tab is finished I think we just need a review of the Steam and Mods tabs and we're good.[/quote']

I made some additional small changes to simplify it (hopefully reducing information density) and remove first person references.

[mishmash]

It sounds like you are suggesting that we use a different format indicator of some sort to indicate decision points or specific actions to take (and sometimes these may be the same content); I'm not quite sure which of these (or both) you suggest should be highlighted in a different way. Are you suggesting an indicator that one or both of these is being covered' date=' or that the [i']content[/i] of the decision point and/or actions should be in a box much like a notice? If we do this here to help readers of this section of the SIG guide we might also want to do think about how this might be done in other guides and sections if it makes it easier for readers to understand.

I was suggesting something like that but I'm loving the sidebars and that's made me re-think a bit.

In doing these additions and edits I wanted to provided a layered approach. Texture optimization as discussed in the DDSopt and Texture Overhauls guide is fairly complicated' date=' and not something which should be given to [i']all [/i]STEP users as the recommended initial approach. I wanted to try to have a path for users that didn't involve using DDSopt, but yet provide some steps that lead to some improvements. Ideally the users who didn't use DDSopt the first time could come back later and do so.

I agree completely with the layered approach and I think perhaps the sidebars are the ideal vehicle to provide slightly more information regarding ancilliary guides than in the body of the SIG which I think should only really mention them in passing. The sidebars shouldn't contain too much text or else they'll make page look cluttered.

On the other hand, as you've done it the first sidebar, a simple and effective action like extracting and repairing the HRDLC is well worth pointing out and introduces the reader to that DDsopt etc. in a straightforward and rewarding way.

It would probably be good to move the HRDLC recommendations to the bottom of page as explanation vs. having it before the options list.

I think the flow of this page still needs some work.

The choice of VRAM options needs to be introduced very early on because those following recommendations for less than <1GB up to 1.5GB will be downloading the optimized pack and could avoid the HRDLC download altogether.

I suggest detailed instructions at the bottom but I'm going to add a line near the regarding this choice.

[mishmash]

In fact that whole section of "HRDLC problems" only applies to those with mroe than 1.5GB VRAM so we could shunt the recommendations for those with less than 1.5 to the top and deal with them, then go on to deal with the bigger VRAM and the HRDLC?

Having the three options together looks nice though, and the concept of cleaning the BSAs is good for everyone. Ignore me, I'm tired and can't make my mind up.

I've moved the obtaining HRDLC bit down into the heavier option.

[Farlo]

I'm going to make a few more changes to the DLC section but I also want to point out some other issues that need attention:

• "Hybrid (1024 + 2048) + DDSopt reduced size normal maps" under the DLC tab - I'm not really sure what this is referring to, there's not much of a description as to what this entails or what to do to achieve it.
• Steam tab - You can now change the installation directory without moving Steam entirely.
• Skyrim tab - This page can be consolidated a lot and probably link to much better explanations than we provide.  In particular the File types table is rather useless for most people and definitely doesn't have any effect on Skyrim Installation.
• The HDDLC stuff - Perhaps we should move this to the HDDLC page so it can easily be linked to from the guide so everyone is installing it properly.
• The Hacks and Utilities tabs could use some love as well, a lot of the information isn't presented well and there are a few out-of-date pieces as well.
• IMO it might be worth breaking most of the auxiliary information off into another guide, a lot of the information doesn't directly pertain to Skyrim's installation.  With the goal of helping people set up properly before installing STEP (and provide the best launchpad for heavy modding in general), it really doesn't need to be so dense. 

[mishmash]

The Bethesda Hi-Res DLC Optimized is one-or-the-other with the HRDLC and thus neither should be a core mod, you make a choice based on VRAM?

 

The Unofficial High Resolution Patch we are calling a core mod on the DLC page here, but it's not mentioned in STEP 2.2.0a at all?

[Farlo]

The Bethesda Hi-Res DLC Optimized is one-or-the-other with the HRDLC and thus neither should be a core mod, you make a choice based on VRAM?

 

The Unofficial High Resolution Patch we are calling a core mod on the DLC page here, but it's not mentioned in STEP 2.2.0a at all?

Most of the options for the Optimized HDDLC require the HDDLC, it's just the "Full 1024" that doesn't use them.  Also, the UHRP is included in v2.2.1, might as well start referencing it since it's here to stay (unless Bethesda fixes every issue o.0)

[Kelmych]

I'm going to make a few more changes to the DLC section but I also want to point out some other issues that need attention:

• "Hybrid (1024 + 2048) + DDSopt reduced size normal maps" under the DLC tab - I'm not really sure what this is referring to, there's not much of a description as to what this entails or what to do to achieve it.
• Steam tab - You can now change the installation directory without moving Steam entirely.
• Skyrim tab - This page can be consolidated a lot and probably link to much better explanations than we provide.  In particular the File types table is rather useless for most people and definitely doesn't have any effect on Skyrim Installation.
• The HDDLC stuff - Perhaps we should move this to the HDDLC page so it can easily be linked to from the guide so everyone is installing it properly.
• The Hacks and Utilities tabs could use some love as well, a lot of the information isn't presented well and there are a few out-of-date pieces as well.
• IMO it might be worth breaking most of the auxiliary information off into another guide, a lot of the information doesn't directly pertain to Skyrim's installation.  With the goal of helping people set up properly before installing STEP (and provide the best launchpad for heavy modding in general), it really doesn't need to be so dense. 

Would this be better: "Hybrid (1024 + 2048) + DDSopt reduced size normal maps", like the above but use DDSopt to generate 1024 or 512 resolution normal maps from the 2K HRDLC normal maps instead of using the low resolution vanilla normal maps.

 

 

Overall I agree that the Skyrim Installation guide has a lot of useful but ancillary information. I could see two guides, one being a Skyrim QuickStart guide that describes the recommended steps to get Skyrim installed with just a little explanation and the other a Skyrim Reference guide that has more explanation and the background material that users will occasionally need later (and that may often be hard to find).

 

I initially thought of this for the DDSopt guide. It's hard for new users since it has a lot of details that more experienced users need/want, but the first time through you just want to get something working so you can try it. A QuickStart version might make it a lot easier for the majority of users who at least initially want our recommended approaches vs. the options and background. The existing guide would be a reference guide.

 

One way to do this might be to have another template feature that would allow hiding/not showing material based on some keyword or binary value. Since it could have more values, a keyword approach could provide a way to tailor a guide to include only examples and steps relevant to a user's system capabilities.

 

I don't quite understand your comment re HDDLC Stuff moving to a HDDLC page - I don't know which page you mean. With the analogy I used above I expect about 70-80% of the SIG DLC tab to be in the QuickStart guide since they are steps that a user would take. There would need to be pointers to more detailed examples, especially for optional steps, that show all the individual steps but without necessarily having all the explanations of why. Some of the detailed step-by-step procedures for the HRDLC are in the current DDSopt guide but there are more that need to be added.

 

If you decide what strategy you want to use if there are multiple guides I can help with some other sections.

[Farlo]

Would this be better: "Hybrid (1024 + 2048) + DDSopt reduced size normal maps"' date=' like the above but use DDSopt to generate 1024 or 512 resolution normal maps from the 2K HRDLC normal maps instead of using the low resolution vanilla normal maps.

Yup, that sounds good to me, just not paying attention that well at the moment :P

Overall I agree that the Skyrim Installation guide has a lot of useful but ancillary information. I could see two guides, one being a Skyrim QuickStart guide that describes the recommended steps to get Skyrim installed with just a little explanation and the other a Skyrim Reference guide that has more explanation and the background material that users will occasionally need later (and that may often be hard to find).

 

I initially thought of this for the DDSopt guide. It's hard for new users since it has a lot of details that more experienced users need/want, but the first time through you just want to get something working so you can try it. A QuickStart version might make it a lot easier for the majority of users who at least initially want our recommended approaches vs. the options and background. The existing guide would be a reference guide.

 

One way to do this might be to have another template feature that would allow hiding/not showing material based on some keyword or binary value. Since it could have more values, a keyword approach could provide a way to tailor a guide to include only examples and steps relevant to a user's system capabilities.

 

I don't quite understand your comment re HDDLC Stuff moving to a HDDLC page - I don't know which page you mean. With the analogy I used above I expect about 70-80% of the SIG DLC tab to be in the QuickStart guide since they are steps that a user would take. There would need to be pointers to more detailed examples, especially for optional steps, that show all the individual steps but without necessarily having all the explanations of why. Some of the detailed step-by-step procedures for the HRDLC are in the current DDSopt guide but there are more that need to be added.

 

If you decide what strategy you want to use if there are multiple guides I can help with some other sections.

I actually like the name "Guide:Skyrim Reference" or even just "Guide:Reference".  If we started offloading all the non-essential information here I think the rest of the guides would be a lot more trim and understandable for normal users.  Plus when the info's in a guide that's not viewed as much we can not care about presentation as much :P 

 

Using some logic on the page would be interesting, but there's not much we can do except toggle various chunks of text as hidden/shown, and I don't think Stopping ever got around to implementing that 100% either. 

 

Regarding the HDDLC stuff on the HDDLC page:  We have a page for every mod in STEP (HDDLC's page) with plenty of room for installation instructions and a direct tie to the STEP Guide.  Since the Optimized DLC is part of STEP I figured we should keep it's installation instructions on that page so you can find it from the STEP Guide more easily.  Then the DLC section of the SIG can just be about optimizing the DLC files before any mods are applied. 

[Kelmych]

I actually like the name "Guide:Skyrim Reference" or even just "Guide:Reference".  If we started offloading all the non-essential information here I think the rest of the guides would be a lot more trim and understandable for normal users.  Plus when the info's in a guide that's not viewed as much we can not care about presentation as much :P 

 

Using some logic on the page would be interesting, but there's not much we can do except toggle various chunks of text as hidden/shown, and I don't think Stopping ever got around to implementing that 100% either. 

 

Regarding the HDDLC stuff on the HDDLC page:  We have a page for every mod in STEP (HDDLC's page) with plenty of room for installation instructions and a direct tie to the STEP Guide.  Since the Optimized DLC is part of STEP I figured we should keep it's installation instructions on that page so you can find it from the STEP Guide more easily.  Then the DLC section of the SIG can just be about optimizing the DLC files before any mods are applied. 

I see what you mean about the HDDLC page; we could also move some details of using Vano's mod to the page for that mod. We would need to mention for these two mods that the user needs to read the mod page for installation details since there is a lot more information than usual on the mod page. I think the info that goes past an individual mod such as the installation combinations using HRDLC & Vano's mod need to be in SIG but perhaps some of the other details can move.

 

I still think we also need the equivalent of a QuickStart guide for using DDSOpt.

[Farlo]

I actually like the name "Guide:Skyrim Reference" or even just "Guide:Reference".  If we started offloading all the non-essential information here I think the rest of the guides would be a lot more trim and understandable for normal users.  Plus when the info's in a guide that's not viewed as much we can not care about presentation as much :P 

 

Using some logic on the page would be interesting, but there's not much we can do except toggle various chunks of text as hidden/shown, and I don't think Stopping ever got around to implementing that 100% either. 

 

Regarding the HDDLC stuff on the HDDLC page:  We have a page for every mod in STEP (HDDLC's page) with plenty of room for installation instructions and a direct tie to the STEP Guide.  Since the Optimized DLC is part of STEP I figured we should keep it's installation instructions on that page so you can find it from the STEP Guide more easily.  Then the DLC section of the SIG can just be about optimizing the DLC files before any mods are applied. 

I see what you mean about the HDDLC page; we could also move some details of using Vano's mod to the page for that mod. We would need to mention for these two mods that the user needs to read the mod page for installation details since there is a lot more information than usual on the mod page. I think the info that goes past an individual mod such as the installation combinations using HRDLC & Vano's mod need to be in SIG but perhaps some of the other details can move.

 

I still think we also need the equivalent of a QuickStart guide for using DDSOpt.

Whoops... I am way too tired.  We don't have a mod for the HDDLC itself, I was referring to the HDDLC Optimized page.  We can add pretty much the entire "Select the option that best suits your VRAM limitations" section of the SIG to the HDDLC Optimized page and rename the DLC tab to HDDLC.  IMO installing and optimizing the HDDLC is part of installing the Base Skyrim, not necessarily STEP (thus why it's not in the mod tables). 

 

I agree, but I'm not going to touch the DDSopt stuff with a 10 foot pole, you and Z can have fun with that one :P

[z929669]

As I said in the DDSopt Guide forum, I vote that we simply compartmentalize the big Guides by Tabs rather than separate pages. That way, the most important topics will be among the first tabs, and we can link to these tabs from the SG and elsewhere.