GUIDE Mythic Dawn: Gateway to Oblivion WIP

[AmeerHM]

I've been busy with other things. 

The guide is need of updating but the drive kinda vanished when will it return, I have no idea.

I think it will be after I get a new processor because Im so tired of the low framerate compared to others.

 

Since I have stop editing the guide, there have been several new mods for oblivion. There are several that would be included.

 

As for the bars...

You'll have to look at editing HUD Alive. I cant remember how one would make the edit.

 

Alright man, you take your time - no point burning out completely.

 

Thanks for the info about HUD alive, I'll try playing around with that - I think after installing it, it removed enemy health bars for me :(. 

 

EDIT: Actually, dude, if you could please help me with one thing. I've been troubleshooting it for an hour and it's really frustrating me; especially since I've finished following the guide and looking back, I have no idea what to do. 

 

Which mod is responsible for this? https://imgur.com/1zct1xv - I REALLLLYY want to remove it. Thanks man.

Edited April 30, 2015 by AmeerHM

[hishutup]

I cant tell you what to do because I dont remember but I think it is one of these "Data\menus\hud_main_menu.xml"

"Data\ini\Hud Status Bars.ini"

"Data\ini\Hud Status Bars - base.ini"

 

I'll see about reinstalling things.

[AmeerHM]

I cant tell you what to do because I dont remember but it is one of these "Data\menus\hud_main_menu.xml"

"Data\ini\Hud Status Bars.ini"

"Data\ini\Hud Status Bars - base.ini"

Alright, thanks man. I appreciate you being honest with me.

 

Have a great night. 

[hishutup]

Well, I went to reinstall everything and say how bad the guide needed updating and I definitely need to make things simpler because I was in a fog or something.

 

I'm going to be removing a number of things also such as:

OBGE, replacing with OR

ENBoost, incompatible with OR

 

Im going to try and remove TMM but I forget why I am defendant on it.

There are two .omods though.

 

Since you just went through it, where do you think I can remove stuff that isnt mods but in terms of instructions and format.

 

Ill give mo a shot but I can already for see issues.

[AmeerHM]

Well, I went to reinstall everything and say how bad the guide needed updating and I definitely need to make things simpler because I was in a fog or something.

 

I'm going to be removing a number of things also such as:

OBGE, replacing with OR

ENBoost, incompatible with OR

 

Im going to try and remove TMM but I forget why I am defendant on it.

There are two .omods though.

 

Since you just went through it, where do you think I can remove stuff that isnt mods but in terms of instructions and format.

 

Ill give mo a shot but I can already for see issues.

 

 

Yeah, sure.

 

As I previously mentioned, the DR6 and UV3 formatting is way off (super confusing if you're actually interested in installing that stuff). Also, half the mods are missing descriptions - maybe if you just gave 5 to 10 words on what they actually do, especially if they're not yellow and mandatory (some users might not want to install absolutely everything).

 

Maybe move the patch stuff up to the latest relevant mod and not at the end (in-case users want to test their load order prior to finishing their install). Also, instead of removing mods, what about adding some stuff? I was really confused why the icon overhaul wasn't mentioned in the guide - that thing is great; instead you went with HUD alive and that thing looks like ass... Useful ass, but still ass.

 

Other than those few points, that's pretty much it. The forum links seem to die halfway through the guide and aren't present on mods that actually do have issues (better cities comes to mind). The first half of the guide is really good with some A* attention to detail but half-way in, it's evident you're as tired as the person installing the damn mods haha. 

 

EDIT: On a side note, I'm quite excited that you feel like picking the guide up. Now that I've followed it through once, I feel more comfortable with the engine and the necessary mod managers; please make some revisions so I have reason to do it again lol. It would be thrilling to see this guide on-par with the Skyrim STEP project, seriously - you'd probably be the reason there's more than 300 people playing on steam at any given time. If you can take this project to 1.0, that would be very absolutely brilliant; advertise it to the right YouTubers and it'll blow up!

Edited May 1, 2015 by AmeerHM

[GrantSP]

@hishy

About TMM or not, I'm currently in a discussion with a user on the MO forum about using TMM to install OMODs and we both found the current version very buggy compared to an old OBMM. If all we want to do is install a couple of OMODs the simpler OBMM might be a better option.

[hishutup]

There is a problem with that, BC will not install with OBMM.

 

I kinda wish Mo had support for omod and wizard.txt installers those would make me switch.

[GrantSP]

I've got Better Cities installed and I didn't use OBMM. Last time I tried the BAIN installer plugin kicked in and it just installed. Mind you it has been months since I actually looked at Oblivion and I didn't examine all the cities to see if there was anything missing, but I can't see any issues in MO.

[AmeerHM]

Why is it that I can't uninstall half of my mods from wrye bash? I.e. If I try to remove physically correct Sky, rebuild my bashed patch, run tes4lodgen and tes4ll, my game will just ctd on start up? Then, when I simply reinstall the mod, it works all fine? This is really weird; I don't see any dependencies for the mod anywhere.

 

Also, even though I am running the game with HDR enabled, Bettet Cities is giving me black cities in the distance. There's also a bunch of additional buildings and bridges added by other mods that will glow a really bright green that can be seen from across the map lol. I'll try take some screenshots of all of this later today.

 

The reason I'm so concerned Is that I followed this mod to the t and even stayed away from the mods you specifically mentioned were unstable and untested (albeit not BC). Something funny is going on :(

[hishutup]

"Why is it that I can't uninstall half of my mods from wrye bash?"

I cant remember sorry but I do remember a similar issue. Try restarting it.

 

"If I try to remove physically correct Sky, rebuild my bashed patch, run tes4lodgen and tes4ll, my game will just ctd on start up?"

Its probably a missing master.

 

"Also, even though I am running the game with HDR enabled, Bettet Cities is giving me black cities in the distance. There's also a bunch of additional buildings and bridges added by other mods that will glow a really bright green that can be seen from across the map lol. I'll try take some screenshots of all of this later today. "

I believe that is related to one the lod retextures.

 

I am currently in the process of redoing some of the guide and trying to refresh my memory on some of this.

I'll stick around so dont be afraid to post your findings. 

Also please check the wiki page's history. I made some edits that may or may not make sense immediately.

Give me awhile to get things in somewhat of an order.

 

If you want to actively chat then check the IRC thing in my sig.

 

 

 

I took another look at mo and in it current state, I cannot get it to work to my liking.

[AmeerHM]

"Why is it that I can't uninstall half of my mods from wrye bash?"

I cant remember sorry but I do remember a similar issue. Try restarting it.

 

"If I try to remove physically correct Sky, rebuild my bashed patch, run tes4lodgen and tes4ll, my game will just ctd on start up?"

Its probably a missing master.

 

"Also, even though I am running the game with HDR enabled, Bettet Cities is giving me black cities in the distance. There's also a bunch of additional buildings and bridges added by other mods that will glow a really bright green that can be seen from across the map lol. I'll try take some screenshots of all of this later today. "

I believe that is related to one the lod retextures.

 

I am currently in the process of redoing some of the guide and trying to refresh my memory on some of this.

I'll stick around so dont be afraid to post your findings. 

Also please check the wiki page's history. I made some edits that may or may not make sense immediately.

Give me awhile to get things in somewhat of an order.

 

If you want to actively chat then check the IRC thing in my sig.

 

 

 

I took another look at mo and in it current state, I cannot get it to work to my liking.

Alright mane, I may have to take you up on that.

 

There is a YouTuber called Zuul. I spoke to him earlier today (basically yesterday night) and asked him if he could cover this guide; he seemed to be quite alright with the idea. Maybe that's something to look forward to?

 

I decided to re-install Oblivion and give this guide another shot w/ OR instead of OBGE (you mentioned OR>OBGE in pretty much every department), so I will be working through it slowly over the coming week, this mean I may be acting as the guinea pig.

 

Few things I noticed that may need some touching up is the cleaning section. With TES4Edit 3.1.0, I was unable to undelete and disable references for the BattlehornCastle and Knights.esp files, both time there were 2 files that had to be skipped. For Knights.esp, it's this line: "Skipping: [ACRE:0000C60F] (in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of Testarena [CELL:000250A4])" and "Skipping: [ACRE:0000C715] (in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of TonyTest "TonyTestCell" [CELL:00054766])". For Battlehorn Castle: "Skipping: [REFR:0000C716] (in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of TonyTest "TonyTestCell" [CELL:00054766])" and "Skipping: [REFR:0000C713] (in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of TonyTest "TonyTestCell" [CELL:00054766])". I should also note (after coming across some of your posts in response to another using experiencing CTDs due to UDRs on Knights.esp) that I have had archive invalidation working through TMM, making sure to have the .ini file NOT set to read-only, the only difference between my game and that user's is that I have no CTDs; seems to be working fine?

 

Maybe if you change it in the guide, so that if someone else experiences these two anomalies they won't get upset?

 

Edit: Damn, you work fast :|

Edited May 2, 2015 by AmeerHM

[hishutup]

Im cool with any coverage.
The more activity the more encouragement.
Although the guide is in kind of a weird position, like its out dated and very split in some areas.
Im removing some of the formatting, I dont know what I was thinking. The upkeep on the formatting is absurd.
 
Im going to change a lot of stuff, so, dont rush.
Personally, I get more pleasure out of modding a game -when everything goes as planned :P- than I do playing it.

As for the issues with battle horn, I think is a non issue. I can ask zilav, if need be.

EDIT: I believe its a non issue.

I changed the archive invalidation instructions to use a different system and I also included some verification steps. Im also going to move the option of making the ini read only.
There is a reason for making it read only though.
OSR will make edits to distances ingame and in the ini and *sarcastically* this can be really fun when addressing fps issues.
 

Maybe if you change it in the guide, so that if someone else experiences these two anomalies they won't get upset?

Modding any game brings a risk but then again, not modding it will leave known issues. Users have to understand that some stuff is overlooked and sometimes things just go wrong. As long as everyone works together to get the issue straightened out then I dont see that there was something lost.

As for the anomalies what are they specifically.

 

---

EDIT: 

 

Ok, I changed a lot up until the Fixes section. I think its for the better. 

Tell me your thoughts.

Should I have people install Landscape LOD generator tes4ll-v4 as a mod that is before installing OR or leave it as it is?

[AmeerHM]

Im cool with any coverage.

The more activity the more encouragement.

Although the guide is in kind of a weird position, like its out dated and very split in some areas.

Im removing some of the formatting, I dont know what I was thinking. The upkeep on the formatting is absurd.

 

Im going to change a lot of stuff, so, dont rush.

Personally, I get more pleasure out of modding a game -when everything goes as planned :P- than I do playing it.

 

As for the issues with battle horn, I think is a non issue. I can ask zilav, if need be.

EDIT: I believe its a non issue.

I changed the archive invalidation instructions to use a different system and I also included some verification steps. Im also going to move the option of making the ini read only.

There is a reason for making it read only though.

OSR will make edits to distances ingame and in the ini and *sarcastically* this can be really fun when addressing fps issues.

 

Modding any game brings a risk but then again, not modding it will leave known issues. Users have to understand that some stuff is overlooked and sometimes things just go wrong. As long as everyone works together to get the issue straightened out then I dont see that there was something lost.

 

As for the anomalies what are they specifically.

 

---

EDIT: 

 

Ok, I changed a lot up until the Fixes section. I think its for the better. 

Tell me your thoughts.

Should I have people install Landscape LOD generator tes4ll-v4 as a mod that is before installing OR or leave it as it is?

The anomalies were the 2 skipped UDRs for BattlehornCastle.esp and Knights.esp; if they're a non-issue, I guess it doesn't even matter.

 

As you're opting for a non-TMM archiveinvalidation route (and have removed TMM from the tools section altogether), is it safe to assume you're scrapping the idea of incorporating TMM into this guide out-right? How will DarN UI and HUD Status Bars get installed, or any .omod even?

 

I noticed that up until the Fixes section, the guide looks a lot more "human" now lol, so what you've changed has been for the better! Can I suggest that you move the "adding markers to WB for convenience" section to the Tools section that covers WB? The first time I went through the guide I completely forgot about that because it was a full 10 mouse-wheel scrolls away!

 

As for your question, I think you should include the tes4ll-v4 install WITH the OR install, since (IIRC) OR actually recommends you use tes4ll WITH it; so why not just have users install them together?

 

On that note though! One suggestion that I really want you to include is this: please encourage users to start their game and see what it looks like, or to check if it even starts to begin with, after installing EACH section of the guide (e.g. User Interface, then Conflicting Textures, etc). I know first-hand how much it sucks to install 190 mod packages and then find something you personally don't like the look of... Try to uninstall it... And then get swamped by all the things that it could possibly be.

 

That's about all I have in my head for you now, though. Keep up the good work!

 

EDIT: for OSR, I'm not sure I understand but, are saying we shouldn't install ANYTHING but the .ini file? You've haven't said to install the packed project in WB, just unpack and delete everything but the .ini. Am I right in thinking this?

 

Another EDIT: I'm up to just before the Conflicting Textures now. I noticed the XML edits you added were for the DarkUI option only; the DarNUI also needs these edits. I found a change from 555 to 830 to be ideal within the <add> brackets under load_text. Fits very squarely and centered and pleases the inner-cinematographer inside me :3. Also, IMHO, HUD status bars should be extended, not core!

Edited May 2, 2015 by AmeerHM

[hishutup]

The anomalies were the 2 skipped UDRs for BattlehornCastle.esp and Knights.esp; if they're a non-issue, I guess it doesn't even matter.

:/

 

As you're opting for a non-TMM archiveinvalidation route (and have removed TMM from the tools section altogether), is it safe to assume you're scrapping the idea of incorporating TMM into this guide out-right?

That is my intention. Few applications = Happier users, ease of install, fewer dependencies and less maintenence

How will DarN UI and HUD Status Bars get installed, or any .omod even?

I believe Wrye can support .omod archives.  DarkUI'd DarN can be manually installed. HUD Status Bars, can be installed like normal.

 

I noticed that up until the Fixes section, the guide looks a lot more "human" now lol, so what you've changed has been for the better! Can I suggest that you move the "adding markers to WB for convenience" section to the Tools section that covers WB? The first time I went through the guide I completely forgot about that because it was a full 10 mouse-wheel scrolls away!

Are you saying put the markers suggestion after each or the first header where you install mods?

Because that makes significantly more sense than have it at a random place at the top.

 

 

As for your question, I think you should include the tes4ll-v4 install WITH the OR install, since (IIRC) OR actually recommends you use tes4ll WITH it; so why not just have users install them together?

I can do that but my question was more of the "Should tes4ll be installed through Wrye or as an application." As I am looking at it, I'm thinking it would be better if it was installed as a mod.

 

On that note though! One suggestion that I really want you to include is this: please encourage users to start their game and see what it looks like, or to check if it even starts to begin with, after installing EACH section of the guide (e.g. User Interface, then Conflicting Textures, etc). I know first-hand how much it sucks to install 190 mod packages and then find something you personally don't like the look of... Try to uninstall it... And then get swamped by all the things that it could possibly be.

I can, but I think I would have to include Alternate Start very early because the intro is hella long and you cant coc from the main menu like one can in skyrim. I dont think installing Alternate Start early is a problem though.

 

That's about all I have in my head for you now, though. Keep up the good work!

 

EDIT: for OSR, I'm not sure I understand but, are saying we shouldn't install ANYTHING but the .ini file? You've haven't said to install the packed project in WB, just unpack and delete everything but the .ini. Am I right in thinking this?

I added another line, does that help?

 

Another EDIT: I'm up to just before the Conflicting Textures now. I noticed the XML edits you added were for the DarkUI option only; the DarNUI also needs these edits. I found a change from 555 to 830 to be ideal within the <add> brackets under load_text. Fits very squarely and centered and pleases the inner-cinematographer inside me :3. Also, IMHO, HUD status bars should be extended, not core!

I will try to remember when I get there.

Should I keep the multiple UI Installs?

Should I keep the other sections that have more than two paths?

The gameplay overhaul one is going to get nerfed though.

Im thinking FCOM, arthmoors, and one other.

[AmeerHM]

Should I keep the multiple UI Installs?

Should I keep the other sections that have more than two paths?

The gameplay overhaul one is going to get nerfed though.

Im thinking FCOM, arthmoors, and one other.

If you can put the WB marker section at the start of the first header to install mods, that would look cleaner imo.

 

I don't think tes4ll is a huge issue tbh; it's just extraction and that's probably easier than installing through WB. If you're going to install tes4ll through WB, it would make sense to install all tools through WB, for the sake of completeness!

 

Installing alternate start early could be a great compromise, yeah. Sounds like a plan there, man.

 

For OSR, I'm probably the densest person you'll ever meet, so I'll just post a picture of what I've done and you can confirm if what I've done is correct or not. https://imgur.com/IG3gyar

 

Regarding the DarNUI loading screens: I will remind you if you forget!

 

Should I keep the multiple UI Installs?

YES! I don't use the DarkUI, like yourself, because I usually have a lot of ambient light in my room and the dark UI would just have me squinting all the damn time. Besides, that's probably one of the clearer written instructionables in the guide, lol.

 

Should I keep the other sections that have more than two paths?

The Lush and Gaudy pack is a bit pointless imo. I'm a bit green so when I see "do not use in current state", I don't even bother expanding the header... So maybe hide that and make it viewable when it's finished? The same would apply with DR6 and UV3. Keep the MOBS guided install, those instructions are nice a cleeeaaan. Major overhaul patches takes up WAY too much space for one mod that fixes horse asses. Roads of cyrodiil guided install is a bit unclear, maybe have four headings instead of 3 + 1, i.e. SIDE BY SIDE let the people drink, UL, UL + people drink, MTC expanded villiages.

 

The gameplay overhaul one is going to get nerfed though.

Do it, mane. DO it.

 

Im thinking FCOM, arthmoors, and one other.

99% of people would just use FCOM. I can't applaud you enough for making the most dreaded and intimidating install on the internet for any game mod out there, SO DAMN EASY. I finished installing FCOM and sat there thinking, "was that it?". Maybe just do FCOM and arthmoors and maybe add some info on why arthmoors is so great; as so to shift the 99:1 ratio of people using FCOM?

 

Dude, can you tell me why you need to restart WB after every install of any mod ever? What happens if you don't? Can you shift around the installed packages in the installers tab risk-free or might that break the game? (After annealing when necessary obviously.)

Edited May 2, 2015 by AmeerHM