GUIDE General Feedback

[Turkeys]

Thanks; I'll start looking at is so it can be added to the guide. If someone else has already tested this with FO3 feel free to add it to the guide. Information on what it does beyond FO3LODGen and installation instructions would be useful to include.

I asked the mod author for help in setting up for Mod Organizer and there's a few links which describe the process. Here's the discussion thread and a setup guide for installing it (TES4LL) on Oblivion. The MPGUI doesn't work with Mod Organizer according to author's comment on the New Vegas page.

 

New Vegas Page: https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/61035/?

 

Discussion Thread: https://forum.step-project.com/topic/9452-landscape-lod-generator-tess4ll-and-mo/

 

MO - Oblivion : https://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:Mod_Organizer_Oblivion

 

EDIT - Do you know of a way to change FOV on things like the S.P.E.C.I.A.L book in the Vault 101 beginning? I play on 21:9 resolution (2560x1080) and it isn't affected by any FOV tweaks that I found. It makes it impossible to close it out once the book is opened, unless dropping the resolution to a supported one and then changing it once finished. Bethesda's ultra-wide resolution support is pretty bummy.

 

I wasn't able to get AA working through the ENB so I just went through drivers instead, and besides the minor issue noted above, the game looks and plays great. Thanks for taking the time to create this guide!

Edited December 13, 2015 by Turkeys

[Kelmych]

I have a few things I'd like to discuss.

Sectioning & Sorting

When you get to the mod list of the guide, you don't start at the first section, Core Fixes, but at Base UI Mods, which is strange. Why not turn the sections around and order them in the way they should be installed? After Base UI Mods comes Core Fixes (or Supplemental UI? The use of main sections and sub(sub(sub))sections can help users a lot here! I'm confused...). The sections and their children all look the same (except for a hard-to-see font size difference). My points of discussion:

Why are the sections not ordered in a more user-friendly manner? Why do I have to install them in an order that is not clearly listed, but vaguely described in the text? I'd like to see the use of numbered 1. Chapters, 1.1 Sections, 1.1.1 Subsections, etc.

I use section levels in the underlying page, but the template currently used on the site doesn't have as much variation on the displayed titles for different section levels as I would like. This will eventually be replaced with a better template, but it hasn't happened yet. The order of the sections is setup so the order in the guide is as close as possible to the desired installation order so the mods work properly. I also tried to group the mods into categories since this makes it easier to select the desired mods and their options. This works most of the time but in a few cases it doesn't. The three core fixes need to be installed before anything else; the other fixes are not as sensitive as to when they are installed. I moved the rest to later in the guide since they don't need to be done yet. I'll rename the two fixes sections to reduce confusion.

FWE installation

FWE is the second mod being installed, after DarNified UI. FWE is a hard one, because not only its installation requires some work, the in-game settings can be tough for inexperienced modders.

One of the main reasons the FNV and FO3 guides were created is because of the difficulty in getting the UI mods installed properly, and user frustration in having to start over multiple times when they don't get installed correctly. The FOMM scripts used for several of the UI mods I labelled "base" select what they install based on what they detect is already installed. If an error is made a user needs to start the installation over at least for this block of mods. I wanted to have these mods as close as possible to the beginning of the guide so if there are any problems with the installation of these mods the user doesn't have to reinstall many mods (the mods in the core fixes section are ok; they wouldn't need to be reinstalled). Yes, these are the hardest mods to install properly. That's exactly why they are first; after they are completed the installation order doesn't matter nearly as much since the other mods can simply be moved to a different priority value in MO as needed. This is not true for the base UI mods. The UIO mod allows some flexibility in adding base UI mods after the initial installation, but it's still easy to end up with problems if sufficient care isn't taken.

FWE mentions a requirement: MMM.

MMM is near the bottom of the page (which again is confusing, because if you install MMM before FWE, it is actually the second(!) mod installed). MMM is also a complicated install, becuase its section has multiple mods.

MMM is an optional mod, as it says in the guide. It is listed as an requirement in FWE with a note that means using the MMM-related option in this mod requires that MMM be installed later as per the guide.  I'll reword the requirement statement.

Here's what I did:

1. DarNified UI
2. (Down the page) MMM
3. Paradox Iginition MMM Merged
4. (I skipped the two body texture replacement fixes, as I won't use them, but I wonder: in what order should these mods end up, because at this point you're nowhere near the body replacement mods these two fix...)
5. Zeta Turret and Drone Karma Fix
6. (Back up the page) FWE
7. ... next mod in Base UI Mods...

Is this the correct order for my installation? Or do I have to sort the mods differently? And do I do this now, or after I have installed other mods at some unknown point in the guide?

It really is much safer to follow the installation order in the guide. If you want to use a different order then you need to examine whether there are any dependencies in FOMM install scripts (if they are used by a mod).  MMM should be installed later; as I said above I'll reword the FWE instructions.

Changing the installation order

Because of my confusion, I forgot to install the Supplemental UI mods. I installed Base UI Mods, Core Fixes and now I'm at the point I want to install Supplemental UI. Can I just install them now and in the left pane of MO put them before the mods from Core Fixes, is that how it's done?

Once the base UI mods are installed, and you have checked to make sure they work properly, the Supplemental UI mods can probably be installed much later although I haven't specifically tested this. If installed later it's still best if they are moved in the left pane of MO to be close to the base UI mods.

Intermediate testing

I want to test the installed mods after I complete installing each (sub)section. I wonder if this could cause problems. E.g. after having installed the Base UI Mods, there's Vault Boy in the guide telling me to test the game. What does this do with e.g. the unfinished installation of FWE and MMM? They require some compatibility patches, don't they? These are near the end of the guide, so they are not installed at this point. So, what's the point of testing the installed mods? When I test, I play for at leat 15 minutes in both interiors and exteriors (to test stability/crashes/performance), so both FWE and MMM are probably used in that time, but I wonder if this can go noticeably wrong at some point.

Compatibility patches installation order isn't very important, but they do need to end up with high values in the MO priority column so they overwrite resources (meshes textures, ...) in other mods. I prefer to install mods with a installation order that reduces dragging and dropping in the left MO pane after installation. Whenever FOMM scripts are used for installation there is also a possibility that the script looks at what is already installed and changes the options of a mod that are installed based on this.

Multiple interfaceshared0.dds files

When installing mods like Smaller Crosshair, Better High Detail Map And Icons, Complete Vault Girl Interface, etc. a different interfaceshared0.dds file is installed, located in \textures\interface\. This is a problem, because every overwrite of this file replaces the previous. The last mod in load order wins, unfortunately. Is there a mod that merges the various interfaceshared0.dds files that are installed? This could be done manually, but this isn't very user friendly. Also, Complete Vault Girl Interface simply replaces the interface, while it should have a plugin that detects the gender of the player character and replace files accordingly.

This file controls the cursors and crosshairs, and the mod with the highest MO priority wins. I'm not aware of an editor for these. You may want to experiment with hiding different versions of this in different mods you have installed to get the one you prefer, or change the mod's MO priority (unless this causes other problems with resources). I'll have to look at this and add some comments in the guide about it.

[EDP]

 

[snip]

 

Thanks for your elaborate answer! It is very clear and it helps me understand better how the installation order you recommend has come to be. I'll check later whether or not I have to redo some of my installation to ensure the correct mods were installed before some others that might depend on previously installed mods.

 

I'll check later if I can find a smart way to merge the various interfaceshared0.dds files. I already have an idea for this. I'm not a programmer, but I use mathematical software (MATLAB) that can deal with images. I will try to import the .dds files, compare them, mark the differences and let the user choose which of the different options to keep. Finally, I will generate one merged interfaceshared0.dds file that will end up in the Overwrite folder. If this method proves successful, a programmer might write a small tool (maybe one of the MO developers?) that replicates my program. The same method may be applied to different .dds files that contain multiple interface elements (if any others exist). I'll create a topic about this after I look into this.

[Turkeys]

This alignment fix for RH Ironsights might be a worth-while addition to the guide. It affects four of the pistols (Browning High Power, the M1911, Sig Sauer, and Beretta 92c):

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/21794/?

 

There's also a detailed re-texture for the Armored Vault 101 Suit you get from Moira, but it doesn't affect the other Vault Suits so it might look out of place in comparison:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/21887/?

Edited December 17, 2015 by Turkeys

[Kelmych]

Thanks, I'll look at these.

[Gazda]

Yet another texture replacer but definitely worth checking. I think this guy nailed it

 

New posters billboards and more by Blangis120

[Kelmych]

Thanks. I'm looking at several texture replacers including these now.

[DanielCoffey]

I have just started making my way through the guide on a clean FO3 GOTY install and have come across a few small issues.

• Pre-Installation Checklist, Section 2. The link to the DirectX End-User Runtime software leads to a "File not known" page on Microsoft's site. I think that version of the software has expired.
• Windows 10 complained that FO3 was not a supported application the first time it was executed (to generate the .inis). The game started just fine however.

I will add anything new as I come across it.

[Kelmych]

Thanks for the comments. A new pointer to the DirectX software was needed, and your comments on the Windows 10 problems were added. I will installing Windows 10 soon, as will other users still running older versions of Windows, so listing issues with Windows 10 is quite useful.

[DanielCoffey]

 I have a small update that may need verifying then adding to the C&PD guide at the Setting Up Mod Organizer, part 4, Optional Settings stage.

 

4. Set up optional settings as desired:

1. In the right pane of MO select the Archives tab, and make sure that the box is checked for Have MO Manage Archives
2. When using FO3LODGen this is unchecked, and then restored after FO3LODGen has completed
3. Make sure the Fallout3 BSA files are ticked. There should be six to tick from Fallout - MenuVoices.bsa to Fallout - Voices.bsa
4. Click the Settings button

I don't know what was supposed to be on point 4.3 in the guide but it was blank when I looked at it. I was getting an instant CTD that indicated missing masters as soon as launching the game, regardless of whether I chose the FOSE launcher or Fallout.exe from within MO.

 

A check with FO3edit showed that all files in my load order were  correct and not missing masters. I could run both the FOSE launcher and Fallout3.exe perfectly from Windows Explorer. it was only within MO that the game failed to start.

 

I was going through the MO setup process again when I spotted the unticked BSA files on the Archives tab. Selecting them solved the problem immediately.

 

===

 

Powered Power Armor...

 

The sentence "Use the Powered Power Armor.esp plugin in this file instead of the one in the mod." needs to be changed to "Use the Powered Power Armor.esp plugin in the DropBox file instead of the one in the mod." and moved to AFTER "Download PPA 1_4 gold Hotfix a and FWE 6 compatibility file and when installing these merge them with MO into Powered Power Armor." because the Hotfix has a copy of that ESP in it too and would overwrite the DropBox file if you were following the instructions in order.

 

===

 

At the first "Vault Boy Says..." section, it would be a good idea to say "... a good place to run LOOT and start up Fallout 3" because Load Order is probably all over the place at this point. I also found a few unticked mod-related ESM/ESP files which I had to manually tick before launching.

 

===

 

Descriptive Icons for Fallout 3

 

Perhaps should have the following added to the end of its description... "Weapons Mod Expanded will be installed later in the Guide but until then, ignore LOOT's warnings about Missing Masters."

 

Not an issue as there are plenty of mods that have dependencies on Masters added later in the guide. Disregard.

 

===

 

Flora Overhaul - Cleaning Tag.

 

Version 1.5 - Forested of Flora Overhaul has the following warning... "Do not clean this mod, it will crash the game!" so perhaps the Cleaning tag should be removed and Vurt's comment emphasised?

 

===

 

DCInteriors Project

 

It would be worth repeating the line from Fixes for Crimson Caravan 1.3 that says "Make sure that ArefuExpandedByAzar.esm loads before DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esm; this is not the order that LOOT will normally use." as DCInteriors is so much further down the guide.

 

===

 

Better Clutter and Furniture Pack

 

Should textures/clutter/booksex_n.dds be removed as well as textures/clutter/booksex.dds?

 

===

 

MG's Neat Clutter

 

Should textures/weapons/1handmelee/*shishkebab_n.dds be hidden as well as textures/weapons/1handmelee/*shishkebab.dds?

 

===

 

Dynamic Weather

 

Should "Move either Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Weather Machine (Quest Added).esp or "Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Weather Machine (Start Game Added).espto Optional ESPs;"

be changed to

"Move either Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Weather Machine (Vendor Added).esp or "Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Weather Machine (Start Game Added).espto Optional ESPs;"?

 

===

 

Ghouls Hires Texture

 

Is this mod needed if the player is using the Roberts Body type? The description of the mod implies it is only for the Breeze body but the C&PD Guide makes no mention of this either way.

 

I see a reference to this mod in the Roberts Body Type but it may be worth emphasizing "... even if you are using the Roberts Body." just to be a little clearer.

Edited January 9, 2016 by DanielCoffey

[DanielCoffey]

I am really appreciating the well thought out design of the Guide and am having relatively few issues given the sheer amount of content it is adding. Cheers!

 

===

 

DC Interiors and DC Interiors - A Room with a View

 

Both of these mods contain an apparently identical BSA and given that the guide advises not unpacking this BSA, can we remove one of them to speed up parsing the mod list? It is 180Mb after all.

 

===

 

eXcalibr - ammo eXpansion pack

 

The guide advises to move CALIBR.esm to the optional files but the actual filename is xCALIBR.esm.

 

Disregard - my error.

Edited January 9, 2016 by DanielCoffey

[Gazda]

 

 

DC Interiors and DC Interiors - A Room with a View

 

Both of these mods contain an apparently identical BSA and given that the guide advises not unpacking this BSA, can we remove one of them to speed up parsing the mod list? It is 180Mb after all.

 

Folder structure inside the both BSAs is not the same. Also, both BSAs have some of it's own resources that the other one hasn't. Eg. In DCInteriors - A room with a view you have a model called dlc04dolltreedollflat01c.nif found in \meshes\dcintmeshes\dcintdlcmeshes\pointlookout\clutter\junk\  but you won't find that model in the DCInteriorsProject mod. There are many more too. Also, CRCs don't match so perhaps the author did some retexturing and it would take time to compare them....which could be a good idea because game will be loading assets from the two identically named BSAs. 

 

 

eXcalibr - ammo eXpansion pack

 

The guide advises to move CALIBR.esm to the optional files but the actual filename is xCALIBR.esm.

xCALIBR mod comes with the CALIBR.esm and xCALIBR.esm. If you go with the FWE setup, like the Guide is instructing, you have to move the CALIBR.esm from the xCALIBR mod to the Optional files, or yet better remove it from the downloaded archive before you begin with installing. That's because FWE has "its own" CALIBR.esm.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Gazda

[DanielCoffey]

Gazda - Thanks for the clarification.

 

===

 

Fallout Food Package Retexture Compilation

 

Do we need the Steakbox Fix for 3 point Oh - for clean or dirty Optional File?

[Gazda]

Yes, you'll want that for either one of those. Either get the patch or fix the texture path with NifScope manually

 

EDIT. It's just a fixed model of steakbox01.nif which resides in \meshes\clutter\food folder.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Gazda

[DanielCoffey]

Aw bother! Just discovered (when I had got down to MMM) that I had been using the Internal FOMOD Installer in MO all along which was why xCalibr had not installed properly.

 

I have gone back and redone the big overhauls (FWE, xCALIBR and MMM) using the External FOMOD installer and spotted the correct ESP files appearing but are there any other mods apart from those that I should reinstall?

 

I have been using Manual install on almost all the mods since it allows me to filter out all the duplicate readmes and screenshots but I hope there were not too many with ESPs hidden inside FOMODs.