LOOT (by WrinklyNinja & Team)

[fireundubh]

Copy the core ESPs into your MO mods directory as individual mods and load them like any other mod but with the highest priority.

 

Then, clean those plugins.

 

MO will use the ESPs in the mods directory instead of the ones in the Data folder, which will prevent Steam from redownloading those files and allow you the privilege of using cleaned plugins.

 

Also, LOOT checks files against their CRC32 checksum, which is based on the data in a file. When that data is modified, the file will produce a new checksum. If you saved your plugins after cleaning, your plugins will have different checksums—and unless someone unintentionally added the cleaned checksums to LOOT's masterlist, LOOT should no longer show you any messages about cleaning.

[Halde]

Well LOOT showed a message about cleaning SDO - The Morthal Swamp and Dawnguard.esm. I had already cleaned Dawnguard once(and as I've said, I did turn of the sync to SteamCloud),and when I cleaned it again, it did have 6 ITM as LOOT reported. The SDO - The Morthal Swamp did also have well above 100 ITM, that LOOT also showed. BOSS didn't even show these ITM when I ran it the first time.

[keithinhanoi]

  On 6/4/2014 at 9:20 PM, Halde said:

I removed the sync option in Steam long ago.

 

Perhaps LOOT discovered some dirty edits that BOSS didn't?

 

Please understand that LOOT does not "discover" dirty edits (ITM, UDR and deleted navmesh records).

 

It uses exactly the same system for identifying dirty edits as BOSS: Through file CRC check matched to user contributed reports.

 

Have you read the LOOT read me? If you haven't - you really should!

 

But to save time, here's the relevant text from the section regarding LOOT's CRC check for mods that are user-reported as having dirty edits (my emphasis added in bold):

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The problem of dirty edits is largely a problem of ignorance on the part of mod authors and users alike of the problems dirty mods can cause. As such, there are community efforts to raise awareness of dirty edits and cleaning. LOOT plays a key role in these efforts, as it holds the complete list of all known dirty mods (as does BOSS), and it uses this information to provide notification messages to users for any dirty mods they have installed.

 

LOOT identifies and describes unclean plugins using four key pieces of information. They are:

• CRC value: CRC values are a highly accurate way of identifying files based on their contents, as if the contents change, so does the CRC value. LOOT identifies an unclean plugin by comparing the installed plugin's CRC value against the CRC values for known unclean versions of that plugin. This identification method has the limitation that it can't detect unclean plugins that aren't already known as such, and won't detect unclean but edited plugins, but it's a lot faster than actually checking for dirty edits in the plugin.

   

• ITM Count: ITM records are a type of dirty edit where a mod has overwritten something in the game without actually changing anything. If another mod higher up in the load order makes an intentional change to that thing, it will have its effect cancelled out by the ITM record, which can cause problems. The ITM count is the number of ITM records found and corrected in the mod plugin.

   

• UDR Count: Deleting records is a significant cause of crashes and game bugs. UDRs are records that the mod deleted from the game or from another mod that have been corrected safely by undeleting them and disabling them instead, which has the same intended effect without causing issues. The UDR count is the number of deleted reference records found and corrected in the mod plugin.

   

• Deleted Navmesh Count: Like deleting records, deleting navmeshes can cause crashes. However, these cannot be automatically corrected, and require manual cleaning. Navmeshes don't exist in Oblivion, so this information doesn't apply.

In addition to the above, there is another type of dirty edit known as a wild edit. These are any edit that is unrelated to the purpose of the mod, and so provide unnecessary opportunity for conflicts with other mods that do need to change the same thing. It can be difficult to tell if an edit is a wild edit, and so they cannot be automatically cleaned. LOOT can still notify users of wild edits and link to information on fixing them if the CRCs of plugins with wild edits are reported, along with details on what needs cleaning.

 

LOOT and the modding communities rely on user contribution of this information to progress. For information on how to contribute, see Contributing To LOOT. If you find that a mod contains dirty edits, you should also report this to the mod's author so that they can fix it.

 

 

 

So, the ONLY way that you will see LOOT reporting a plugin has dirty edits is that

• They have been reported by users and added to LOOT's masterlist that gets downloaded when you run it
• The CRC of the plugin file reported matches the CRC of your plugin on your machine

So, bottom line, if you get a dirty edit report, it means that LOOT has not seen your cleaned plugin, because it's not in the correct place.

 

The SR (original, not LE, but I think LE also) method of cleaning the "official" Update.esm & DLC .esm plugins is to use the TES5Edit "backup" feature after cleaning each one, so you can add the cleaned .esm as a mod in MO, and return the backups to the real <Skyrim>/Data directory, and then renaming back to their original names.

 

This method results in MO seeing the cleaned "official" .esm plugins as overwriting the one in the real <Skyrim>/Data directory, and so as long as you are running LOOT through MO (either installed in its executables list if using MO 1.1.2, or the built in LOOT sort feature if using the latest beta) then it will see the cleaned "official" .esm plugins as having different CRC values from the originals, and you won't get the dirty edits reporting.

 

The second advantage of this method is that it leaves the original "official" content files intact in the real <Skyrim>/Data directory, so Steam won't see them as missing, and it's less likely you will have to bother with re-installing Skyrim from scratch if something goes wrong.

 

As for the differences of dirty edits reporting between BOSS and LOOT - keep in mind that LOOT is getting more attention now in terms of user-submitted reports of mods with dirty edits. So, in many cases, it's more accurate - or more importantly, it's more up-to-date that BOSS in reporting mods with dirty edits.

Edited June 4, 2014 by keithinhanoi

[fireundubh]

You can just create a folder in the MO mods directory and copy plugins and stuff to there. Refresh MO. Voila! You've installed a new mod.

 

You don't have to screw around with the "create a mod from the overwrite folder" thing.

[DoubleYou]

The reason for the extra 6 ITMs in Dawnguard.esm: https://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1476559-cleaning-mods-issue/

[Kuldebar]

  On 6/5/2014 at 12:06 AM, DoubleYou said:

The reason for the extra 6 ITMs in Dawnguard.esm: https://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1476559-cleaning-mods-issue/

I feel left out, LOOT reports my cleaned Dawnguard as clean. :/

[DoubleYou]

Mine is clean too ;)

[fireundubh]

"I wonder if I should remove the three left over records manually?"

 

[EssArrBee]

The only way they would matter is if USKP changed those records, and if it did, then UDGP would just forward the change. ITMs are a problem farther down the load order then they are up high.

[DoubleYou]

Indeed. Sometimes I wonder why we bother to clean Update.esm at all. It's not like any mod will need to come between Skyrim.esm and Update.esm.

 

Just remembered why we do: deleted navmeshes.

[Vaportrails]

  On 6/4/2014 at 8:07 PM, Vaportrails said:

Hey folks, I've been using LOOT ever since I came back to playing Skyrim again and it's great. Went all the way through the STEP Core using only LOOT and it worked perfectly. Now, I'm getting more adventurous in modding the game and went through the entirety of the Skyrim Revisited pack. And it generally worked really well. Been looking at some other packs as well like REGS and MMO. In working with these packs I'm noticing a lot of dependency on BUM. I personally don't want to work with BUM because that would mean going back to BOSS and I want to stick with LOOT since that is the future we're heading toward. So, when I went through the SR:LE pack I generally just skipped over the parts that mentioned BUM and hoped for the best that LOOT would sort everything accordingly.

 

There were some cases where I would go into LOOT and explicitly tell plugins to 'Load After' another plugin. Like this for example is a very easy translation for LOOT:

• OVERRIDE Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp AFTER Dragonborn.esm

For that I know I can go in to LOOT and go to the 'Load After' tab and put in the information there. LOOT might already be smart enough to do this but for the sake of keeping with the pack guides I put it in there anyways.

 

However, when it came to stuff like this:

• AHZmoreHUD.esp BOTTOM MCM Mods

I had no idea how to translate that to something that LOOT would recognize.

 

So, my question. Has anyone figured out how to translate the BUM rules over to LOOT? If we take the AHZmoreHUD.esp example above how would I put that into LOOT so that it loads it accordingly?

 

Again, I know it's possible that LOOT is already sorting everything entirely correct but I'm not sure I want to just assume.

 

Thanks.

 

Reposting question since it got buried. Anyone have an answer for this?

[fireundubh]

  On 6/6/2014 at 5:18 PM, Vaportrails said:

Reposting question since it got buried. Anyone have an answer for this?

Just assume.

[DoubleYou]

@Vaportrails

There is no way to translate rules between BOSS and LOOT

[Vaportrails]

Alright, thanks for the answers guys. I'll just let LOOT do its thing and ignore the BUM rules stuff in the packs.

[Octopuss]

LOOT is superior to BOSS in every imaginable way, but! you do need to know your load order a bit more personally, and add a bit of extra rules in the metadata editor. Knowing what should load after what is enough in most cases (but you can do more than that). It will work out of the box, but there might be some very minor undesirable conflicts.

LOOT also made me use TES5edit after adding mods to see what's overwriting what, and make changes accordingly. For example, I realized Book Covers Skyrim was making changes to cells, deleting records made by ETaC.

 

I guess the conclusion is that LOOT is what people should use, but it's not as automated as it might seem, and a bit of extra knowledge is needed.