SKYRIMLE LOOT v0.5.0 Beta 15 & MO

[Kuldebar]

OK, who is using these together and what's the word?

 

  Quote

 

LOOT is the spiritual successor to BOSS, and was originally planned for release as BOSS v3. However, because it operates in a very different way to BOSS, it was decided to instead release it as a separate utility.

Expand  

 

[Kuldebar]

  On 5/5/2014 at 2:49 PM, wolverine2710 said:

TLDR: Switched with an existing game from BOSS to LOOT and now 20 levels further Skyrim is still stable as a rock.

I was afraid to do that as a matter of practice, switching horses in the center of the stream, etc. But, I did start a new game and all is going well. Resorting masters (each time) is a bit of a pain whenever I add new mods to my game.

[ipmlj]

Great info fireundubh. Can't wait to check out Gopher's video.

 

I've been experimenting with LOOT too and very happy with it so far. Shoot I have no real idea how it works...just been getting my hands dirty to see what it can do. There are some really cool features I like about it.. seeing conflicting mods, being able to fine tune my load order, etc.. all without cracking open another program.

 

I'm glad I put the uncertainty aside and started using it.

[DoubleYou]

For all using LOOT with STEP 2.2.8, you need to make the following adjustments (this includes all plugins in 2.2.8 Extended):

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

plugins:  - name: AOS.esp    after:      - name: ADS.esp      - name: RealisticWaterTwo.esp  - name: SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp    after:      - name: Distant DetailHF.esp  - name: RealisticWaterTwo.esp    after:      - name: Point The Way.esp      - name: RabbitsPlus.esp      - name: SkyrimChimneysRW.esp  - name: STEP Core Patch.esp    after:      - name: ExplosiveBoltsVisualized.esp      - name: Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp      - name: NonEssentialChildren.esp      - name: Soul Gems Differ - E.esp  - name: STEP Extended Patch.esp    after:      - name: Ars Metallica - Dragonborn.esp      - name: BetterQuestObjectives-Dawnguard.esp      - name: BlockSparkles.esp      - name: Chesko_Step418_SN.esp      - name: Disease Descriptions.esp      - name: ExplosiveBoltsVisualized.esp      - name: Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp      - name: NonEssentialChildren.esp      - name: Radiant and Unique Potions Poisons and Booze.esp      - name: Soul Gems Differ - E.esp      - name: WetandCold.esp

 

 

This should result in the following load order, which works (checked via TES5Edit)

 

Core:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Skyrim.esmUpdate.esmUnofficial Skyrim Patch.espDawnguard.esmUnofficial Dawnguard Patch.espHearthFires.esmUnofficial Hearthfire Patch.espDragonborn.esmUnofficial Dragonborn Patch.espSkyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esmdD-No Spinning Death Animation.espRaceMenu.espNoxUE2.00.espClamsDropPearls.espBrows.espDead Body Collision.espBeards.espAuto Unequip Ammo.espDistant DetailHF.espDawnguardRuneWeaponsFXSReplacer.espAppropriately Attired Jarls Redux.espMoss Rocks.espMoss Rocks_DB.espSoul Gems Differ - E.espSPTConsistentOlderPeople.espDiversePriests.espGuard Dialogue Overhaul.espWeapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.espNonEssentialChildren.espExplosiveBoltsVisualized.espORM-Arvak.espRun For Your Lives.espRaceMenuPlugin.espSkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.espPoint The Way.espRealisticWaterTwo.espRealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.espSkyUI.espTradeBarter.espSkyrimImprovedPuddles-DG-HF-DB.espSkyrim Flora Overhaul.espElemental Staves.espTraps Make Noise.espADS.espAOS.espIHSS.espImproved Combat Sounds v2.2.espWhen Vampires Attack.espaMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.espSTEP Core Patch.espPilgrimsDelight.espThe Paarthurnax Dilemma.espGildergreen Regrown.espImproved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.espfFastTravelSpeedMult_4.espmoveitLWT.espBashed Patch, 0.esp

 

 

Extended:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Skyrim.esmUpdate.esmUnofficial Skyrim Patch.espDawnguard.esmUnofficial Dawnguard Patch.espHearthFires.esmUnofficial Hearthfire Patch.espDragonborn.esmUnofficial Dragonborn Patch.espSkyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esmLanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esmDD_Dawnguard Additions.espAuto Unequip Ammo.espConvenient Horses.espNausicaa's Tweaker.espBFSEffects.espClamsDropPearls.espChesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.espfFastTravelSpeedMult_4.espLock Overhaul.espBrows.espDead Body Collision.espArs Metallica.espTraps Make Noise.espDual Wield Parrying_SKSE.espExplosiveBoltsVisualized.espArs Metallica - Dawnguard.espAnimated Weapon Enchants.espMoss Rocks.espORM-Arvak.espArs Metallica - Dragonborn.espFootprints.espGuard Dialogue Overhaul.esp83Willows_101BUGS_V4_LowRes.espmoveitLWT.espAppropriately Attired Jarls Redux.espNoxUE2.00.espdynamic fires.espSkyrimCoinReplacerRedux.espDistant DetailHF.espRaceMenuPlugin.espWeapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.espDD_Dragonborn Additions.espRun For Your Lives.espRadiant and Unique Potions Poisons and Booze.espRaceMenu.espSMDropLitTorch.espFootprints - Ash.espMoss Rocks_DB.espShootingStars.espSkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.espSkyUI.espTradeBarter.espDual Sheath Redux.espDawnguardRuneWeaponsFXSReplacer.espSoul Gems Differ - E.espDisease Descriptions.espADS.espBring Out Your Dead.espBetterQuestObjectives.espThieves Guild Requirements.espBetterQuestObjectives-Dawnguard.espNonEssentialChildren.espOblivion Gates v3 without Markers - Skyrim + Dawnguard DLC.espBirdsHFclean.espTheChoiceIsYours.espPoint The Way.espSkyrimImprovedPuddles-DG-HF-DB.espRabbitsPlus.espSkyrimChimneysRW.espRealisticWaterTwo.espAOS.esprandomthunder.espdD - Enhanced Blood Main.espImproved Combat Sounds v2.2.espIHSS.espDeadlySpellImpacts.espaMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.espRealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.espDungeonQuestAwareness.espSkyrim Flora Overhaul.espmanny Lantern Caretakers.espBLESSINGS - Altar Descriptions.espElemental Staves.espPilgrimsDelight.espThe Paarthurnax Dilemma.espBlockSparkles.espChesko_Step418_SN.espSPTConsistentOlderPeople.espDiversePriests.espRainbows.espBeards.espWetandCold.espWetandCold - Ashes.espSTEP Extended Patch.espArs Metallica - Hearthfire.espImproved Closefaced Helmets_Legendary.espGildergreen Regrown.espTheChoiceIsYours_Dawnguard.espWhen Vampires Attack.espdD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.espdD-No Spinning Death Animation.espiHUD.espmintylightningmod.espBashed Patch, 0.espDual Sheath Redux Patch.esp

 

 

For SkyProc programs, if you disable BOSS, you will likely need to sort masters on the STEP Patches under LOOT load order for them not to throw fits.

[EssArrBee]

Oh crap, I forgot that sorting masters was going to matter with LOOT. Damn that messes up Fear and Loathing in NV too. I may never be able to switch my guide over since all the mods now require different sorted masters.

[z929669]

We should be looking at the plugin sort order of STEP:Core and STEP:Extended under LOOT versus BOSS in order to determine which is most efficient and 'correct' with respect to conflict resolution and simplification of creating the STEP Patches.

 

Since MO is supporting LOOT now and not BOSS (AFAIK), then we should take the hint and climb on board ... and we currently are not making any amendments to the BOSS sort order for STEP, which I am certain must have some issues too. Or we should be explicitly defining the correct plugin order in the STEP Patch ReadMes and the guide

[EssArrBee]

Only MO beta version is supporting LOOT, so we shouldn't be jumping over to LOOT unless we need to. I do like what I'm seeing with the plugin list with LOOT so far, but it needs quite a bit of tweaking for our mod list. We would have to submit quite a few rules to the masterlist to get it to a point where users don't have to make a ton of rules.

[keithinhanoi]

@DoubleYou -

 

Does that adjusted load order in LOOT take into account all mods with scripts meant to overwrite ones provided by earlier loading mods?

 

This is one aspect of LOOT that I worry about - the possibility that some plugins in the BOSS masterlist were placed in that slot so that scripts in their accompanying BSA would overwrite scripts provided by earlier loading plugins.

 

This potential issue is of course more relevant in a non-Mod Organizer context, but still important in MO if you're following the priority re-ordering suggestions in the warnings window, as Tannin confirmed elsewhere yesterday that those re-ordering suggestions are based entirely on load order.

 

Now, I can't cite any examples off the top of my head, but I can take a look when I next get to my rig at home.

[EssArrBee]

LOOT's load order isn't final. You can adjust it and submit changes to the masterlist kinda like BOSS except without the categories.

[keithinhanoi]

  On 5/7/2014 at 5:02 AM, EssArrBee said:

LOOT's load order isn't final. You can adjust it and submit changes to the masterlist kinda like BOSS except without the categories.

 

Yes, I realize that, but I have absolutely no idea if I can trust LOOT's masterlist quite yet to have all of those order adjustments added.

 

As for me adjusting it myself, well I have to admit that as much as I try to know things about all the mods I use, I honestly do not know which ones have scripts that are meant to overwrite others (outside of the unofficial patches - but that's very different as their up with the .esm masters.)

 

So to be 100% sure, I'd have to go through the /data directory preview in MO, note every single instance of script "conflict", and do some research to find out which mod's scripts should win the overwrite contest.

 

And I consider myself to be a fairly knowledgeable mod-user, so I'm thinking about all the people that just can't deal with all that information.

 

However, with STEP, we're talking about a finite number of mods, which doesn't get changed very often, so it seems it's entirely possible to get that required order under control and spelled out in the Guide, once STEP includes the recommendation of using LOOT instead of BOSS to sort load order. But is that order for mod assets overwrite priority going to be set in MO priority order, and let LOOT order the plugins differently (so you get the warning in MO,) or will there be a custom LOOT order adjustment for STEP, so that load order and priority order match?

[DoubleYou]

  On 5/7/2014 at 4:36 AM, keithinhanoi said:

@DoubleYou - Does that adjusted load order in LOOT take into account all mods with scripts meant to overwrite ones provided by earlier loading mods? This is one aspect of LOOT that I worry about - the possibility that some plugins in the BOSS masterlist were placed in that slot so that scripts in their accompanying BSA would overwrite scripts provided by earlier loading plugins. This potential issue is of course more relevant in a non-Mod Organizer context, but still important in MO if you're following the priority re-ordering suggestions in the warnings window, as Tannin confirmed elsewhere yesterday that those re-ordering suggestions are based entirely on load order. Now, I can't cite any examples off the top of my head, but I can take a look when I next get to my rig at home.

There are only a few cases of script conflict in STEP currently, and all of them are against the Unofficial patches. The one between Thieves Guild Requirements and The Choice Is Yours is a non-issue as they are identical script files (checked via file hashes). Between all the file conflicting scripts, there is no conflict if you follow the STEP Guide and you use either the BOSS LO or the LOOT LO. At any rate, any possible script issues present would not be able to be fixed by changing the LO or the mod priority order, as none of the other script files overwrite one another and therefore would make absolutely no change whether we moved their esps around or not. The only BSA affected mods in STEP 2.2.8 Extended are as follows:

  Reveal hidden contents

Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.bsaSPTConsistentOlderPeople.bsaGuard Dialogue Overhaul.bsaUnofficial Skyrim Patch.bsaUnofficial Dawnguard Patch.bsaUnofficial Hearthfire Patch.bsaUnofficial Dragonborn Patch.bsaiHUD.bsaRaceMenu.bsaSkyUI.bsaFootprints.bsaFootprints - Ash.bsaLanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.bsaMoss Rocks.bsaRabbitsPlus.bsaBFSEffects.bsadD - Enhanced Blood Main.bsamintylightningmod.bsaRainbows.bsaShootingStars.bsaArs Metallica.bsaAuto Unequip Ammo.bsaBring Out Your Dead.bsaConvenient Horses.bsadynamic fires.bsaGildergreen Regrown.bsamanny Lantern Caretakers.bsaLock Overhaul.bsaSMDropLitTorch.bsaThe Paarthurnax Dilemma.bsaRun For Your Lives.bsaWhen Vampires Attack.bsaWetandCold.bsaWetandCold - Ashes.bsa

[Kuldebar]

Now that I am using Skyre (oh my!) I have read about "doubts" concerning how LOOT handles the ReProccer stuff...yet so far I haven't noticed anything out of whack. I use SUM so I can avoid having BOSS trash my LOOT ordered mod list, there's usually a handful of out of order masters I have to fix via TES5Edit before running the patcher.

[ipmlj]

Not trying to sidetrack this thread:

 

I haven't noticed any problems with the reproccer.jar-via SUM in my SRLE + Skyre experiment with a LOOT Load Order. In fact I am fairly certain the reproccer.esp comes out identical but would be happy to test it.

 

Edit: I'm only sorting masters on the reproccer.esp after its built. Should I be checking all the mods the .jar pulls info from?

Edited May 8, 2014 by ipmlj

[Kuldebar]

  On 5/8/2014 at 6:44 AM, ipmlj said:

 

Edit: I'm only sorting masters on the reproccer.esp after its built. Should I be checking all the mods the .jar pulls info from?

I have no clue, I have been sorting before and after and I'm not entirely certain how much it matters...I know it can matter...but I'm just taking a safe approach.

[DOHstep2013]

  On 4/28/2014 at 1:10 AM, fireundubh said:

 

You were trying to load a save with a new load order? edit: Nevermind. The 49 thing threw me.

 

CTDs on launch are almost always caused by missing masters. Plugins check for masters above them in the load order. So, it's possible that you have a special case mod.

 

Here's how I roll a load order:

 

• MO: Make sure that mods that overwrite stuff are placed below foundational mods, like the unofficial patches, fixes, and graphics replacers.
• LOOT: Apply the load order.
• Wrye Bash: Identify issues relating to missing masters and plugins with out-of-order masters.
• MO: Remove mods with missing masters.
• TES5Edit: Correct plugins with out-of-order masters. Save and exit.
• TES5Edit: Load the entire load order and check for conflicts.
• TES5Edit: Load conflicting mods and create a patch, if necessary.
• LOOT: If I created a patch, apply a new load order.
• Wrye Bash: Generate a bashed patch.
• MO: Clear the overwrite folder except for the bashed patch and other patches.
• FNIS: Try very hard to remember to run FNIS again.
• Start a new game with Papyrus logging turned on.
• Check BareTail real-time monitor of Papyrus log on second monitor for problems on initialization.
• No problems? Exit, turn logging off, and play the game.
• Get annoyed by the lack of some feature, go searching for a mod, create the mod instead, and go back to #1, never progressing any further in the main quest than Riverwood.

 

This is fantastic.  I would like to do the same process, but I am not a modder.  Is there a guide that could detail the steps listed here?  Specifically, I only know the basic cleaning of mods with Tes5edit, and I have never even heard of FNIS.  I do use Mod Organizer, LOOT (as of reading this), and Wrye Bash.

[Kuldebar]

Thoroughly pleased with the job LOOT is doing. I have had only one single issue and it was entirely understandable because LOOT can't read minds...yet. It involved SPERG Perk Tree Override ESP's and where LOOT placed them. LOOT would have no real way of telling how to place those correctly and thus required me to make a user rule for it.