BethINI Ultra Grass Settings?

[mooit]

I'd like to inscrease these settings below, and I noticed from High to Ultra BethINI doesn't adjust the Grass Distances any different. I'm trying to create the least amount of pop in.

Skyrim.ini

[Grass]
fGrassFadeRange=14128
fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=6144.0000
fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0.0000

SkyrimPrefs.ini

[Grass]
fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=6144
fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0
fGrassStartFadeDistance=6144

THANKS

[DoubleYou]

Ensure the grass fade-in effect is disabled as well. These settings are optimal for max grass distance.

Another thing to note is that some mods may have inappropriate alpha coverage in mipmaps, which may cause the grass to fade prematurely at a distance. Unfortunately that can't be fixed without modifying the textures to be correct. 

[z929669]

In short, don't change these settings. They are perfect as they are, given game units and other related INI settings. DY has already done all of the testing and validation of these settings (and other settings BethINI changes via preset choices).

[mooit]

At the moment I'm using Tamrielic Grass; https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/46217

Maybe the distance at which the grass begins to fade/popin can't be changed, but I was hoping there was a way to make it more subtle, less noticeable?

It's my understanding, some grass mods are better at this than others.

Here's a video, at 12 & 45 seconds it pops in, so just fast forward just before these times. It's so fast and obvious, this change, is there a way to make it more subtle, slowly fading in, so it's not as noticeable?

Grass Popin

It's nice too, to see a new grass/landscape mod 'Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul', maybe this one has less noticeable pop in?

THANKS

Edited May 31, 2023 by mooit

[DoubleYou]

That isn't anything INI settings can resolve. The grass LOD simply doesn't match the full grass very well.

[mooit]

When you say bad matching, possibly end-user settings needing better fine tuning in TexGen and DynDOLOD, or no matter the settings, some grass mods are always going to look this way?

THANKS

[z929669]

56 minutes ago, mooit said:

It's nice too, to see a new grass/landscape mod 'Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul', maybe this one has less noticeable pop in?

THANKS

I created a vanilla-esque grass cache for that one available for download, so you can give it a try. The plugin also gives all grasses object bounds. It's nice, diverse grass but has a green tundra and no complex grass.

[mooit]

26 minutes ago, z929669 said:

I created a vanilla-esque grass cache for that one available for download, so you can give it a try. The plugin also gives all grasses object bounds. It's nice, diverse grass but has a green tundra and no complex grass.

 

I'd like to use Veydogolt - Green Tundra Grass with Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul, but I was hoping that the Land and Water Overhaul would also have a green landscape version as well.

Like these areas I marked with a red X are brown with Land and Water Overhaul, so maybe in time, there can also be more of a green landscape version.

 

 

The vanilla-esque grass cache, what's going to be different about using this, compared to me creating a grass cache?

THANKS

Edited June 1, 2023 by mooit

[DoubleYou]

34 minutes ago, mooit said:

When you say bad matching, possibly end-user settings needing better fine tuning in TexGen and DynDOLOD, or no matter the settings, some grass mods are always going to look this way?

THANKS

It seems possible from the video that the object bounds for some grass types are missing from that mod, causing not all of them to receive lod, which is making it not display correctly.

[z929669]

28 minutes ago, mooit said:

The vanilla-esque grass cache, what's going to be different about using this, compared to me creating a grass cache?

THANKS

It's always best to create your own grass cache if you know how to do it. It's really not too hard, but setting it up without having a 1.5.97 profile is a headache.

I thankfully never had to mess with it, because I backed up my complete 1.5.97 game folder just ahead of that breaking 'upgrade'. I just rename my game folders when I want to use it.

28 minutes ago, mooit said:

 

I'd like to use Veydogolt - Green Tundra Grass with Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul, but I was hoping that the Land and Water Overhaul would also have a green landscape version as well.

Like these areas I marked with a red X are brown with Land and Water Overhaul, so maybe in time, there can also be more of a green landscape version.

 

That area with the red x is just landscape with no grass, so no grass loaded there at all. It looks like you have a landscape-grass mismatch.

Maybe VO doesn't have a green tundra, but I recall it was greener than CL when I was working on it. Maybe I'll revisit that mod again to have a closer look. I've been wanting to strip out all but the landscape, grass, and trees anyway.

---

It looks like Veydogolt - Green Whiterun Tundra Grass does account for the landscape/terrain colors, so maybe you need to ensure it overrides VO ... and check the asset conflicts between the two to be sure.

[mooit]

Ok, I will play with just Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul to see how I like the brown tundra, and then I will make sure the green tundra overwrites it.

I have 1.5.97 all setup in MO2 to make the grass cache, I've been doing it for all the grass mods I've played with.

@DoubleYouok

For Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul you recommend using iMinGrassSize=52? I noticed 52 was in the grass cache you created.

Is Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul suppose to have hidden files? When I installed it in MO2, it shows up as having hidden files.

THANKS

Edited June 1, 2023 by mooit

[z929669]

34 minutes ago, mooit said:

Ok, I will play with just Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul to see how I like the brown tundra, and then I will make sure the green tundra overwrites it.

I have 1.5.97 all setup in MO2 to make the grass cache, I've been doing it for all the grass mods I've played with.

@DoubleYouok

For Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul you recommend using iMinGrassSize=52? I noticed 52 was in the grass cache you created.

Is Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul suppose to have hidden files? When I installed it in MO2, it shows up as having hidden files.

THANKS

VO has all grass object bounds, and the INI is what grVulture had prior to my modifications. All I did was edit the plugin to calculate object bounds for all trees and grasses and got rid of all the redundant textures and meshes. Then I created new tree LODs and generated a grass cache.

iMinGrassSize should be whatever you like. 52 seems fine. I only see one hidden file: \meshes\architecture\solitude\sbridge01.nif.mohidden

I don't recall hiding that one, so I must've missed it. That mod essentially combines many other mods into one with some custom assets grVulture made I think.

[mooit]

So I don't need to mess with any object bounds?

Yes sbridge01.nif.mohidden is what I see too.

Should I unhide this?

THANKS

P.S. For Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul, is there a recommended TexGen grass Direct/Ambient settings to start from?

Edited June 1, 2023 by mooit

[mooit]

I still see the same grass pop in with Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul, it's no different. 

I thought with the Object Bounds being mentioned, Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul, would have not as noticeable pop in?

I don't get why I still see the same pop in, when I'm using good settings for BethINI and NGIO and Grass Cache Fixes. I'm also using all the default settings for xLODGen, TexGen, DynDOLOD from the Step Guide too.These are my NGIO settings I'm using in 1.5.97 to create the Grass Cache.

Spoiler

########################################################################################################################
#   Ray cast enabled                                                                                                   #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Use ray casting to detect where grass shouldn't grow (inside rocks or roads).                                        #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (boolean)                                                                                                   #
########################################################################################################################

RayCast = True

########################################################################################################################
#   Ray cast height                                                                                                    #
#                                                                                                                      #
# The distance above grass that must be free. 200 is slightly more than player height.                                 #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (float)                                                                                                     #
########################################################################################################################

RayCastHeight = 150

########################################################################################################################
#   Ray cast depth                                                                                                     #
#                                                                                                                      #
# The distance below grass that must be free.                                                                          #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (float)                                                                                                     #
########################################################################################################################

RayCastDepth = 5

########################################################################################################################
#   Ray cast collision layers                                                                                          #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Which collision layers to check when raycasting. Not recommended to change unless you know what you're doing. These  #
# are collision layer index from CK separated by space.                                                                #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (string)                                                                                                    #
########################################################################################################################

RayCastCollisionLayers = "1 2 13 20 31"

########################################################################################################################
#   Ray cast ignore forms                                                                                              #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Which objects will raycast ignore. This can be useful if you want grass to still grow from some objects (such as     #
# roads). The format is formid:formfile separated by ; for example "1812A:Skyrim.esm;1812D:Skyrim.esm" would add       #
# RoadChunkL01 and RoadChunkL02 forms to ignore list. Base forms go here not object references!                        #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (string)                                                                                                    #
########################################################################################################################

RayCastIgnoreForms = ""

########################################################################################################################
#   Super dense grass                                                                                                  #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Enable much more grass without having to change mod files.                                                           #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (boolean)                                                                                                   #
########################################################################################################################

SuperDenseGrass = False

########################################################################################################################
#   Super dense mode                                                                                                   #
#                                                                                                                      #
# How the super dense mode is achieved. Not recommended to change for normal play. This does nothing unless you enable #
# SuperDenseGrass setting. 7 is normal game (meaning nothing is actually changed), 6 or less would be much less grass, #
# 8 is dense, 9 is ?, 10+ is probably crash city.                                                                      #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (int32)                                                                                                     #
########################################################################################################################

SuperDenseMode = 8

########################################################################################################################
#   Profiler report                                                                                                    #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Whether to track how much time is taken to generate grass. Whenever you open console the result is reported. Try     #
# disabling all settings except profiler, go to game and in main menu 'coc riverwood', after loading open console to   #
# see normal game time. Then enable settings and check again how it changed. Remember to coc from main menu instead of #
# loading save because it might not be accurate otherwise.                                                             #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (boolean)                                                                                                   #
########################################################################################################################

ProfilerReport = False

########################################################################################################################
#   Use grass cache                                                                                                    #
#                                                                                                                      #
# This will generate cache files in /Data/Grass/ and use those when we have them. Any time you change anything with    #
# your mod setup you must delete the contents of that directory so new cache can be generated or you will have bugs    #
# like floating grass or still grass in objects (that were changed by mods).                                           #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (boolean)                                                                                                   #
########################################################################################################################

UseGrassCache = True

########################################################################################################################
#   Extend grass distance                                                                                              #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Set true if you want to enable extended grass distance mode. This will allow grass to appear outside of loaded       #
# cells. Relevant ini settings:                                                                                        #
# SkyrimPrefs.ini [Grass] fGrassStartFadeDistance                                                                      #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (boolean)                                                                                                   #
########################################################################################################################

ExtendGrassDistance = True

########################################################################################################################
#   Extend grass count                                                                                                 #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Allow more grass to be made in total. This is needed if you use very dense grass or have large draw distance.        #
# Otherwise it will reach a limit and just stop making grass leaving weird empty squares.                              #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (boolean)                                                                                                   #
########################################################################################################################

ExtendGrassCount = false

########################################################################################################################
#   Ensure max grass types setting                                                                                     #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Makes sure that the max grass types per texture setting is set to at least this much. Can be useful to make sure     #
# your INI isn't being overwritten by anything. Most grass replacer mods require this. Set 0 to disable any            #
# verification.                                                                                                        #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (int32)                                                                                                     #
########################################################################################################################

EnsureMaxGrassTypesPerTextureSetting = 15

########################################################################################################################
#   Overwrite grass distance                                                                                           #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Overwrite fGrassStartFadeDistance from any INI. If this is zero or higher then the grass distance will always be     #
# taken from this configuration instead of any INI. This can be useful if you have a million things overwriting your   #
# INI files and don't know what to edit, so you can just set it here. For example 7000 is vanilla highest in-game      #
# grass slider. If you want to set higher you need to enable ExtendGrassDistance setting as well or it will not look   #
# right in-game. What the setting actually means is that grass will start to fade out at this distance. Actual total   #
# grass distance is this value + fade range value.                                                                     #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (float)                                                                                                     #
########################################################################################################################

OverwriteGrassDistance = 6144

########################################################################################################################
#   Overwrite grass fade range                                                                                         #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Overwrite fGrassFadeRange from any INI. If this is zero or higher then the grass fade range will always be taken     #
# from this configuration instead of any INI. This determines the distance it takes for grass to completely fade out   #
# starting from OverwriteGrassDistance (or fGrassStartFadeDistance if you didn't use the overwrite). If you want the   #
# grass fade out to not be so sudden then increase this value. Probably recommended to keep this at least half of the  #
# other setting.                                                                                                       #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (float)                                                                                                     #
########################################################################################################################

OverwriteGrassFadeRange = 14128

########################################################################################################################
#   Overwrite min grass size                                                                                           #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Overwrite iMinGrassSize from any INI. If this is zero or higher then the grass density setting (iMinGrassSize) will  #
# be taken from here instead of INI files. Lower values means more dense grass. 50 or 60 is normal mode with somewhat  #
# sparse grass (good performance). Lowering the value increases density! 20 is very high density. You should probably  #
# not set lower than 20 if you decide to change it. The grass form density setting itself still mostly controls the    #
# actual density of grass, think of iMinGrassSize more of as a cap for that setting.                                   #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (int32)                                                                                                     #
########################################################################################################################

OverwriteMinGrassSize = 52

########################################################################################################################
#   Global grass scale                                                                                                 #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Apply this scale to every piece of grass everywhere. For example 0.5 makes all grass pieces half the size it should  #
# be.                                                                                                                  #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (float)                                                                                                     #
########################################################################################################################

GlobalGrassScale = 1.15

########################################################################################################################
#   Only load from cache                                                                                               #
#                                                                                                                      #
# This will change how grass works. It means grass can only ever be loaded from files and not generated during play.   #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (boolean)                                                                                                   #
########################################################################################################################

OnlyLoadFromCache = True

########################################################################################################################
#   Skip pregenerate world spaces                                                                                      #
#                                                                                                                      #
# When pre-generating grass then skip worldspaces with this editor IDs. This can greatly speed up generating if we     #
# know the worldspace will not need grass at all.                                                                      #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (string)                                                                                                    #
########################################################################################################################

SkipPregenerateWorldSpaces = "DLC2ApocryphaWorld;DLC01Boneyard;WindhelmPitWorldspace"

########################################################################################################################
#   Only pregenerate world spaces                                                                                      #
#                                                                                                                      #
# If this is not empty then skip every worldspace that isn't in this list.                                             #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (string)                                                                                                    #
########################################################################################################################

OnlyPregenerateWorldSpaces ="AlftandWorld;Blackreach;BlindCliffCaveWorld;BloatedMansGrottoWorld;BluePalaceWingWorld;
BrinewaterGrottoWorld;DarkwaterWorld;DeepwoodRedoubtWorld;DLC01Boneyard;DLC01FalmerValley;DLC01SoulCairn;
DLC1AncestorsGladeWorld;DLC1DarkfallPassageWorld;DLC1ForebearsHoldout;DLC1HunterHQWorld;
DLC1VampireCastleCourtyard;DLC2SolstheimWorld;EastEmpireWarehouse;EldergleamSanctuaryWorld;
FallowstoneCaveWorldEnd;FallowstoneCaveWorldStart;FrostmereCryptWorld;JaphetsFollyWorld;
KarthspireRedoubtWorld;KatariahWorld;LabyrinthianWorld;LabyrinthianWorld03;LabyrinthianWorld04;
MarkarthWorld;MossMotherCavernWorld;RedEagleRedoubtWorld;RiftenWorld;ShadowgreenCavernWorld;
SkuldafnWorld;SolitudeWorld;SouthfringeWorld;Sovngarde;Tamriel;TestSnow;WhiterunDragonsreachWorld;
WhiterunWorld;WindhelmPitWorldspace;WindhelmWorld"

########################################################################################################################
#   DynDOLOD Grass Mode                                                                                                #
#                                                                                                                      #
# Enable grass compatibility mode with DynDOLOD Grass LODs. Valid values:                                              #
# 0 = Disabled                                                                                                         #
# 1 = Display grass only in active cells (without fade) and let DynDOLOD handle inactive cell Grass                    #
# 2 = Display grass only in active cells and large ref loaded cells (without fade) and let DynDOLOD handle grass       #
# outside of large ref cells                                                                                           #
#                                                                                                                      #
#    Type: (int32)                                                                                                     #
########################################################################################################################

DynDOLODGrassMode = 1

This is my Grass Cache Fixes settings for 1.6.640.0

Spoiler

[Display]
bShadowsOnGrass=1
;Should always be enabled. Grass is bugged with it disabled.

[Grass]
bAllowCreateGrass=0
;Toggles the ability for the game to generate the grass mesh positions in the game upon cell load. This should be disabled if using the grass cache bAllowLoadGrass mechanism.

bAllowLoadGrass=1
;Toggles loading grass data files (grass/*.gid files) to display grass.

bDrawShaderGrass=1
;Toggles grass.

bEnableGrassFade=0
;Toggles the fade-in effect of grass when new grass comes into view. This should be disabled if using grass LOD via DynDOLOD.

fGrassFadeRange=14128
;Sets the additional distance from fGrassStartFadeDistance that the grass will show.
;fGrassStartFadeDistance should be set 6144 in the SkyrimPrefs.ini file.

bGenerateGrassDataFiles=0
;Toggles the creation of grass data files (grass/*.gid files) upon cell load. Requires bAllowCreateGrass=1 to be enabled for the files to actually be created. The vanilla system for creating these files is bugged, so make sure this is disabled!

;iMaxGrassTypesPerTexure=15
;Sets the maximum number of grass types per landscape texture. This has no effect if loading grass from pregenerated grass cache files.

;iMinGrassSize=52
;Sets grass density. Higher values create less dense grass. Lower values create more dense grass. This has no effect if loading grass from pregenerated grass cache files.

 

[mooit]

Here's a video with Veydogolt. Bloody Vimeo converted it to only 540p... hmm

Just start it at 20 seconds...

Veydogolt Grass Pop In

[DoubleYou]

You just need to play with the grass brightness settings until they match in TexGen.