BethINI Ultra Grass Settings?

[mooit]

I'd like to inscrease these settings below, and I noticed from High to Ultra BethINI doesn't adjust the Grass Distances any different. I'm trying to create the least amount of pop in.

Skyrim.ini

[Grass]
fGrassFadeRange=14128
fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=6144.0000
fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0.0000

SkyrimPrefs.ini

[Grass]
fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=6144
fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0
fGrassStartFadeDistance=6144

THANKS

[z929669]

10 hours ago, mooit said:

I still see the same grass pop in with Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul, it's no different. 

I thought with the Object Bounds being mentioned, Veydogolt - Grass and Land and Water Overhaul, would have not as noticeable pop in?

I don't get why I still see the same pop in, when I'm using good settings for BethINI and NGIO and Grass Cache Fixes. I'm also using all the default settings for xLODGen, TexGen, DynDOLOD from the Step Guide too.These are my NGIO settings I'm using in 1.5.97 to create the Grass Cache.

If grass base records do not have object bounds defined in the plugin, then they don't get LOD. This is not an issue for Veydogolt Overhaul or Veydogolt - Green Whiterun Tundra Grass (it's just textures for VO), so the issue is as DY stated: TexGen Direct/Ambient tweaks. The current Step 2.2.0 settings should be very close for VO, but since it doesn't have complex grass, you should be using "Grass" settings shown here as a starting point. I would leave Direct at 100 and test with Ambient = 10|5|25, since Ambient has more impact:

Be sure to also set grass tint for non-complex grass same as for CG:

You should be testing difference between loaded/LOD in clear weather on the tundra at around noon ToD.

Generate DynDOLOD only for Tamriel worldspace and keep Dynamic LOD UNticked for faster generation (just for testing grass lighting).

Once that matches well, you can also play around with other settings in DynDOLOD_SSE.ini for grass billboards, and test at dusk/dawn on tundra also in clear weather. Grass LOD does not receive shadows, so these settings help to adjust LOD grass to match loaded when the sun is low in the sky:

; Billboard templates to use for grass LOD done in static object LOD
; alt1 = without backlighting
; alt2 = with backlighting
; alt3 = softlight/backlight using diffuse - for shader development - do not use
GrassBillboard1=Internal
GrassBillboard2=DynDOLOD_flat_2x2alt1_lod.nif
GrassBillboard3=DynDOLOD_flat_2x2alt2_lod.nif
GrassBillboard4=DynDOLOD_flat_4x2alt1_lod.nif
GrassBillboard5=DynDOLOD_flat_4x2alt2_lod.nif
GrassBillboard6=DynDOLOD_flat_4x2alt3_lod.nif

; Billboard template to use for grass LOD billboards created from "normal" grass without normal map textures
; 1 -> Billboard1, 2 -> Billboard2, 3 -> Billboard3 etc.
GrassBillboard=1

I would first check using the default GrassBillboard=1. This setting probably ignores backlighting and is default, so if grass matches pretty well at dusk/dawn, nothing more needs to be done. If not, try GrassBillboard=5 with GrassBacklightMask=25|50|75|100 and check disk/dawn matching.

For these compares, you can create a save on the tundra and reuse that for each changed DynDOLOD output, since only the textures are changing and DynDOLOD plugins should otherwise be identical (don't change any mods between DynDOLOD runs). Keep in mind that EVLaS will not work properly when reloading the save, so I suggest disabling EVLaS for all testing.

Once you have ideal TexGen/DynDOLOD_SSE.ini settings, regenerate DynDOLOD again as normal (with dynamic LOD) for all worldspaces using those settings.

This process usually requires at least 3 DynDOLOD test regenerations and could require many more, depending on how fast you find the correct settings.

[mooit]

I've been playing with this for months, the only thing I see, is that I can get close color matching, but depending on the lighting and time of day, there is still a difference between the colors.

I also don't see what matching 'Colors' has to do with Pop In. The way I see it, getting the colors more evenly matched, might make a slight difference, but I still see it Pop In.

I don't see making any of these changes removes Pop In. It just seems like, all I'm doing is getter a better match between the distance grass colors is all, but it still pops into view when I get close.

Hmm

THANKS

P.S. I'll keep playing...

Edited June 2, 2023 by mooit

[mooit]

On the topic of different colors at different hours of the day, especially at sunrise or sunset times, or a few hours before or after, I've never been able to get grass matched very well at these times.

Here's an example of what I mean, at like 9am-10am.

But maybe, depending on the angle of the sun, this is to be expected, but I assumed, if the grass in the near distance is somewhat lighter, distance grass closely resembles that... hmm

Edited June 2, 2023 by mooit

[DoubleYou]

You are correct that it is nearly impossible to have perfect grass lod matching. Now that you've described it more, I think you may instead be looking for less of the fade in/out effect of LOD. In this case, you can test using settings similar to the following.

Skyrim.ini

[LOD]
fFadeInThreshold=0.000001
fFadeInTime=1
fFadeOutThreshold=0.99999
fFadeOutTime=0.000001

[TerrainManager]
fFadeSeconds=0.00001

I can't remember if DynDOLOD may not override one of these in its MCM menu.

[mooit]

[TerrainManager]
fFadeSeconds=0.00001

Skyrim.ini doesn't have [TerrainManager], so should I add that in, or add it instead to SkyrimPrefs.ini, which has [TerrainManager]?

THANKS

Edited June 2, 2023 by mooit

[z929669]

18 minutes ago, mooit said:

[TerrainManager]
fFadeSeconds=0.00001

Skyrim.ini doesn't have [TerrainManager], so should I add that in, or add it instead to SkyrimPrefs.ini, which has [TerrainManager]?

THANKS

Yes, but why not just use BethINI to do it so your current settings get backed up as normal? Then it also gets applied to the correct INI.

---

EDIT: ... and let us know the values you find if it works.

[mooit]

A major part of my computer background is from Linux, especially Slackware, and that is mainly using the terminal for commands.

I certainly use GUI on computers, but when it comes to something like this, I personally like and find it easier to edit things manually by hand, rather then always relying on a UI to do the job. I also believe, that when you do things too this way, you gain a better understanding of what's going on. It's like being the Mechanic, instead of a Driver, so I like to get under the hood. LOL

I also look at BethINI as the starting tool, just to get a Base Line setup in place, but afterwards, editing by hand.

I'm assuming that 'Yes' meant to add it to Skyrim.ini?

THANKS

P.S. I'm a Hands on Geek! LOL

Edited June 2, 2023 by mooit

[mooit]

2 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

You are correct that it is nearly impossible to have perfect grass lod matching. Now that you've described it more, I think you may instead be looking for less of the fade in/out effect of LOD. In this case, you can test using settings similar to the following.

Skyrim.ini

[LOD]
fFadeInThreshold=0.000001
fFadeInTime=1
fFadeOutThreshold=0.99999
fFadeOutTime=0.000001

[TerrainManager]
fFadeSeconds=0.00001

I can't remember if DynDOLOD may not override one of these in its MCM menu.

These still have some pop in.

There is a slight fade however at the beginning, but then it pops. Also I've noticed, sometimes the grass disappears then reappears poping in. hmm

Looking at how these numerical values were created, I don't understand, if there's much of a range here to adjust within, if possible to slow it down further.

On a side note with GrassBillboard=

GrassBillboard=1

I've tried 2-6 before with Tamrielic Grass and it only made the distance grass appear very dark at different times. I found, trying to use 2-6 made it harder to match the grass. I don't see any difference here, since this also uses Tamrielic Grass.

Edited June 2, 2023 by mooit

[DoubleYou]

The settings must go in Skyrim.ini to have any effect. 

[mooit]

I have all the settings in Skyrim.ini and it's not really doing anything for Veydogolt.

I'm putting back my original setup and test it, and will let you know with it, if I see a difference.

I don't know which settings are causing this, but when I stand outside the Whiterun gate, and look straight ahead at the farthest mountain tops in the distance, these pulsate in an out of view. hmm

THANKS

P.S. I don't know if the limitations of the game engine can be overcome, but if there's ever a way, to somehow have something in this game, either in DynDOLOD or a mod, it seriously needs something to elimiate the pop in and hopefully have it appear more naturally fading in an out.

This popping in of objects, terrain, grass, rocks, etc., absolutely kills the ambience of the game, and it's so sad, considering the massive amount of mods out there, along with DynDOLOD that make this game look so NextGen, all except this issue. hmm hmm hmm ;/

Edited June 2, 2023 by mooit

[DoubleYou]

Yeah, only thing you can do is roll back to 1.5.97.0 and use NGIO to put full grass out into the distance there. As for "pulsating" mountains, that just sounds like z-fighting, which is normal issue.

[mooit]

The settings made an entire mountain area pulsate, unless the settings were introducing intense Z-Figthing, not sure.

What do you mean 'Full Grass'? ExtendGrassCount in the GrassControl.config?

Also, is ExtendGrassCount=true in the GrassControl.config a good thing to use anyway?

I wouldn't want to stay on 1.5x I think there are better updates and fixes on the 1.6x versions, especially with the latest releases of Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.

The question is, can grass pop in, somehow be corrected, with some sort of changes/mod, etc., in the future.
 

THANKS

Edited June 3, 2023 by mooit

[DoubleYou]

I presume in the future someone will do it, but this is the best we have right now.

ExtendGrassCount fixes issue with SuperDenseMode where the grass goes over limits. It only needs to be used if you find a cell where you have no grass. To use it, you'll have to regenerate grass cache. Regenerating grass cache with the setting set to true causes the cache to take about 100 times longer to generate.

[mooit]

I haven't noticed any areas without grass.

But one thing I have seen often, I approach an area, and then, for a lack of better wording, and entire area of grass disappears, then as I move a little closer all the grass then pops into view, not sure what causes this.

The one thing I am noticing, is that the grass fade distances, changing the settings doesn't do anything to extend it further out, making it supposedly fade further into the distance.

So maybe, as an example, if fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=25000.0000 could be made to work, then it fade/pops in so far out, that you don't notice it, instead of close to you. From what I've read, at this moment 7000 is Ultra.

hmm

THANKS

P.S Does Complex Grass match better in the distance, or the same?

Edited June 3, 2023 by mooit

[DoubleYou]

fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance merely controls the max distance of the Grass slider in the in-game settings menu. The two that matter are fGrassStartFadeDistance and fGrassFadeRange. Increasing it beyond the range of the loaded full grass cells is unlikely to have any effect.

The thing where the grass disappears and then reappears sounds like an occlusion plane. So if you are using Exterior FPS Boost mod, that is likely the cause of that.

Complex grass is typically more difficult to match than non-complex grass.