ACCEPTED Complete Alchemy and Cooking Overhaul (by kryptopyr)

[mikegray]

FYI, CACO-STEP patch has been updated for CACO v1.2. Link here.

 

It includes the relevant CACO patches from the CACO Nexus page. In other words, for a plain STEP install, just the CACO main file and the CACO-STEP patch are needed.

 

BTW, if I use one of your new patches can I skipp Krypo's CACO_UniqueBooze_Patch and CACO_AlternateNames_Patch (assuming I want alternate names ... ) - or do yours build on those?

[Nebulous112]

Not my patch. ;-)

And cheers to onem4nb4nd for the updated patch!

I was just giving a PSA.

 

 

To answer your question, yes you can skip both.

 

Unique Booze HD is included in the STEP recommended version of Radiant and Unique Potions and Poisons (i.e. "Radiant and Unique Potions Poisons and BOOZE.esp"), and this patch will cover patching CACO for every mod currently in STEP (except for the few STEP mods that need to be removed; see OP of this thread for details on those). Onem4nb4nd has also made versions of this patch that include the alternate names.

 

Basically Onem4nb4nd has just saved STEP users from a ton of headaches. :-)

[Guest]

Lol Krypto clearly doesn't like me, but I don't blame her.

 

Anyway, the reason I came in here before was to praise how many bugs have been fixed since I last looked. I thought the mod was abandoned because there were 15 active bug reports. Now, after a good old check, there's a very small handful. I admire the dedication of the team working on this and it is great to see the continuous work that is put in. Most large mods just get left to rot.

[kryptopyr]

Aah, Sparrow, of course I like you, even if you're trying to steal my name.  ;)   

 

Thanks for the comment; some of those bugs were a pain to work out.  CACO is far from abandoned.  In addition to me, I think there are still at least 3 active team members hard at work on things for the next update, which will hopefully be less about bug-fixes and more about adding new features and fleshing out the existing stuff.

 

BTW, I think the dog is cute and all, but it just isn't me.   :P

[Guest]

Haha, I know but I was just trying to get you to say something. Clearly I wasn't trying to force anything on you, but I should have just said what I wanted to say. I can annoy people sometimes and say what I think a bit too much, but that's just me.

 

Was that vampire bomb bug fixed then? I didn't see it listed I don't think.

[TechAngel85]

I've updated the OP. It may not be completely accurate. I haven't checked in xEdit to see if the load order matters from the author's thread post. I just barely started sipping my coffee.

[kryptopyr]

 

Was that vampire bomb bug fixed then? I didn't see it listed I don't think.

Yes, it should be fixed now.  :)

[kryptopyr]

I've updated the OP. It may not be completely accurate. I haven't checked in xEdit to see if the load order matters from the author's thread post. I just barely started sipping my coffee.

 

No offense to onem4nb4nd; I do appreciate his work on providing these patches.  However, can I suggest that CACO first be tested on its own merits before you decide to overwrite many of its changes with alternate options and a third-party patch?

 

 

Alternate Names:  I feel that CACO's default naming system is superior to this as it adheres more closely to the vanilla names while allowing the potions to sort by quality.  Also what's probably more important in this case, is that STEP does not use the overhaul mods for which this patch was designed for.  The naming convention used here was intended for consistency with SkyRe, not vanilla/STEP.  Plus, the patch does not take player-made potions into account, so you'll end up with two different, and inconsistent, naming systems for potions.

 

Radiant and Unique Potions & Unique Booze:  CACO adds it's own custom textures for most of these items to make them appear unique, and personally I feel they look a hell of a lot better than RUPP.  Yeah, I know I'm a bit biased, but I used Gamwich's textures from "Rustic Potions & Poisons" as the base for CACO's unique potion textures.  Why overwrite these textures, which are consistent with the texture choice for STEP CORE, with textures from a STEP Extended mod? 

 

I understand that CACO would be in Extended, but shouldn't the default compatibility still be STEP CORE?  At least give my textures a fair evaluation before deciding whether you prefer someone else's textures.  By the way, this also overwrites a major change that CACO makes in the way the potion meshes are used.  CACO changes the meshes in order to create visual consistency between potion bottle size and potion weight.  The patch you're recommending for testing CACO is reintroducing inconsistencies that CACO has specifically tried to address.

 

Skyrim Coin Replacer Redux, Invisibility Eyes Fix, & AOS:  These mods do have records that should ideally be carried over and merged with CACO.  However, the changes aren't game-breaking, and you're not likely to run into any serious problems with your game if these mods aren't patched while testing CACO (assuming CACO is loaded after them).

 

 

Now I'm not going to get huffy if you guys decide you don't like my changes and prefer to overwrite them with those other mods, but at least take a look at what I've done with CACO before dismissing my changes out of hand.  It's not really a fair test of my mod when you're overwriting so much of it from the very start, and I think that the changes made by this patch are actually creating greater inconsistencies with a STEP CORE install and the general STEP ideals, than what you'd get by using just CACO.

[TechAngel85]

I have yet to fully test the external patch. Any issues will likely be covered by the STEP Patches, rather than using this patch. I thought it simply took the multiple patches and combined them into one. I do know it allows for RPP to be used, but I've been for dropping it from the beginning if CACO gets accepted. RPP has other issues which have never been addressed so it's best to simply drop it for future compatibility reasons. As I said, I've not looked too far onto the patch, personally. The alternative names version choice is because renaming items for better sorting would not keep it from being in STEP. We do this very thing for Soul Gems Differ and it is acceptable.

 

In light of the information you have provided, I'll revert the OP to using the individual patches when I get home this evening.

[kryptopyr]

I updated the patch collection found on the mod page to include separate patches for Audio Overhaul for Skyrim 2 and Invisibility Glitch-Eyes Fix.  If you'd like me to include a merged patch specifically for STEP, I can do so; just let me know which patches you'd like me to include in the merge.

[onem4nb4nd]

Thank you for the acknowledgements, and I'm sorry I missed a few days of chat here.
 

 

I understand that CACO would be in Extended, but shouldn't the default compatibility still be STEP CORE?  At least give my textures a fair evaluation before deciding whether you prefer someone else's textures.  By the way, this also overwrites a major change that CACO makes in the way the potion meshes are used.  CACO changes the meshes in order to create visual consistency between potion bottle size and potion weight.  The patch you're recommending for testing CACO is reintroducing inconsistencies that CACO has specifically tried to address.

 

Now I'm not going to get huffy if you guys decide you don't like my changes and prefer to overwrite them with those other mods, but at least take a look at what I've done with CACO before dismissing my changes out of hand.  It's not really a fair test of my mod when you're overwriting so much of it from the very start, and I think that the changes made by this patch are actually creating greater inconsistencies with a STEP CORE install and the general STEP ideals, than what you'd get by using just CACO.

Just to clarify the intent behind my patch in case it's under question - I wanted to play with CACO, and I was sure other people did as well but a full STEP:E build wasn't compatible with it; simple as that.

Now, even I believe the RUPP models are far from perfect, especially for a mod guide aiming for a near-vanilla experience. It's the shear variety it provides that I'm attracted to. I love being able to recognize separate potions and poisons at a glance and I appreciate them each being represented with different models. I even started researching how to create my own models during the time I was testing out my own patch, before I ever thought of releasing, it but I quickly realized that would take months with my current resources and opted for the RUPP replacement in my own mod setup.
Considering how my patch consisted entirely of STEP mods I decided other people could make use of it as well, and the rest is history...
 

Also kryp, I don't think anyone here was planning on dismissing your work without evaluating it. I even get the feeling it's part of many of the STEP testers' philosophy to test a mod under the two main circumstances; modless and a full STEP build separately - so, not to worry!
 

"and I think that the changes made by this patch are actually creating greater inconsistencies with a STEP CORE install and the general STEP ideals, than what you'd get by using just CACO." - well, I mean, the patch doesn't change anything... It's a STEP:E install with a wonderful CACO addition. It wasn't made for STEP:CORE but it clearly adheres to the 'general STEP ideals' for the Extended build since that's what it's based off - unless you mean the Alternate Names version but of course there's a version without that.
Now, if you believe the STEP:E build stretches the ideals a little too far itself, that could certainly be reviewed - but probably in a different forum thread 

I updated the patch collection found on the mod page to include separate patches for Audio Overhaul for Skyrim 2 and Invisibility Glitch-Eyes Fix.  If you'd like me to include a merged patch specifically for STEP, I can do so; just let me know which patches you'd like me to include in the merge.

- Well, I guess you don't need me anymore then!  ::  

If not everyone here was already aware: anyone on the STEP team or Kryptopyr herself is, and always has been, welcome to use my work to make their own patching easier.

Edited May 8, 2016 by onem4nb4nd

[kryptopyr]

onem4nb4nd, I think your patches are still important for players.  I recognize that many people do like the Radiant and Unique Potion meshes, so I think it's great to have that option available.  I wasn't trying to replace your patch with the new ones I uploaded, but I did want to add individual support for a couple of the STEP mods that I was missing.  For people using STEP with RUPP, your patches certainly remain the best option.

 

My objection is simply that the testing instructions in the OP specifically direct mod testers to use your patch while testing CACO, and I feel that CACO should be tested independently first.  Your patch DOES change and overwrite some of CACO's features.  It does not just merge unrelated edits made to the same records, but it directly overwrites changes that CACO explicitly makes.  I'm not opposed to what your patches do, and I'm not saying that people shouldn't use your patches with CACO or even that STEP shouldn't use your patch.  I just don't think the patch should be used during the initial testing of CACO.

 

I would recommend disabling Radiant and Unique Potions Poisons and Booze.esp during the initial testing of CACO, just as the instructions state to disable 101BugsHD.  Both mods are part of STEP Extended, but CACO replaces both of them.  After testing CACO, STEP may decide to keep one or both of these mods, of course, at which point patches will be needed for them.

[onem4nb4nd]

Yeah, it sounds like we're on the same page here but are also over-explaining that page to each other,  
I'll just agree and get of your guys' way for the more important things to happen. 

[TechAngel85]

I finally got around to updating the OP.

[mikegray]

EDIT: In this post I talk about changing LOOT meta-rules to put the CACO plugin after iNeed. This is not necessary, or even advised, and changing the order in a running savegame may have helped cause the save bug.

 

* * * * * 

 

Bug/compatibility report: 

 

(This probably applies more directly to iNeed, but I think it has to do with interactions between CACO and iNeed.)

 

I recently got my save game into a super weird state where I could open an old save and play with good stability and fps, but I would get CTDs every time I tried to create a new save (leaving a .tmp file in the save folder). Using the old console "player.kill" + console-save trick would let me create a new save - but opening that new save and doing a normal save (including save by console command) would also result in an immediate CTD.

 

One particularly weird aspect of the problem was that in both situations, I had played for a solid hour or so, making regular saves, with no problems till I got a CTD out of the blue - indoors, post combat, just nosing around, totally boring situation. When I went back to restart play, I could open any of the 10+ saves I'd made while playing, but the game would CTD as soon as I tried to create a new save. However, going back to a much earlier save let me play and save just fine.

 

This happened twice.

 

The first time I THOUGHT I had narrowed the problem down to a problem with CACO. By reducing plugins to vanilla, then adding in a few at a time and trying to make a save, I could successfully save UNTIL I activated CACO. Since iNeed comes immediately before CACO in my load order, the non-CTD load order included iNeed. However, when I left out CACO but activated all the other plugins, I was still getting CTDs on save. Since I was ALSO having some script issues with xpmse (which I had just installed), I decided to go back to a 2-day-old save where I COULD save.

 

The second time I was able to play for several hours - a few hours of dungeoning, travel to Windhelm do some stuff, then set off for Whiterun, get about half way there, including several fights. Then the rot set in again. 

 

This time, I discovered that I could get rid of the bug as follows: 

 

- usie Save Game Cleaner to clean out all iNeed scripts and forms

- deactivate iNeed (plus iNeed dependents - including DynDoLOD! - and the iNeed-CACO patch),

- opene the save,

- make a new save (no CTD),

- close Skyrim,

- reactivate iNeed + Dependents,

- restart,

- wait for iNeed to initiate,

- make a new save (still no problems). 

 

Note 1: just using the cleaner to deactivate iNeed scripts was NOT ENOUGH to solve the problem. I HAD to load the game without iNeed. 

 

Note 2: During the initialization process, CACO throws an error mesage: "iNeed waterskins are out of order." Not sure what that means! 

 

Note 3: My iNeed settings may be relevant here! In particular: I always have iNeed automate food and drink consumption. That is, I like the immersion-effect of having to have food and drink with me, but I'm in too much of a hurry to actually do anything about it! It's POSSIBLE that the two CTDs that started the can't-save problem happened at a moment when iNeed had me remove food or drink from my inventory. This is just a hunch, though - and in both cases I had done A LOT of eating and drinking before this happened! 

 

Note 4: Of course, the CTD-on-save bug COULD start again.