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[Kelmych]

Clear and Present Danger - A guide for modding Fallout 3

 

This thread is for reporting problems when using the "Clear and Present Danger guide for Fallout 3". This includes errors in the guide, problems in following the guide, problems with the mods included in the guide, and problems running Fallout 3 when following this guide.

 

Please post any problems such as these in this forum. It's also best to post them here vs. sending me a PM. Often I won't have an answer but the other readers of this forum might have a good answer.

[GrantSP]

I'll post my latest hiccup here, rather than starting a fresh thread.

Whenever I activate DTO, regardless of what is activated before or after, the images for most pipboy items is now replaced by a generic missing image of a pink field and most intriguing of all, the ESC is now disabled and I can't bring up the game menu.

 

Ive just now ran a test profile and of course it works fine so it is conflicting with something, but what is anybody's guess.

 

This is becoming a very hard task to track down.

I can definitively say the issue is not DTO. Or more precisely, DTO and one or other mods that are active.

I've just spent most of today shuffling mods around and de/activating mods to see what is causing my issues.

 

My latest arrangement has it that if I load DCInteriors the game won't even start and just crashes before it gets past the FOSE loader screen.

Or if I load WMK my pipboy images are replaced with the pink generic blank one and I can't access the ESC key to get to the game menu, the same problem I thought was due to DTO which I now have loaded and can work just fine.

 

What I would really love to see is someones 'modlist.txt' and 'plugins.txt' from a complete working setup, that way I can see which mods to move in order.

Clearly the whole collection can work, its just getting it to that stage that I can't get to.

With just under a dozen mods still unchecked I can't even get to the point of making a bashed patch.

 

I think I will first try and merge a few plugins though, surely I can gain a few spots back by combining those Xepha plugins?

What about the Powered Power armor plugins, they should be able to be merged?

Edited January 22, 2015 by GrantSP

[Kelmych]

My current modlist is here; it changes often because of testing and this doesn't include some of the mods that are being tested. The guide includes far fewer plugins than the max number that FO3 can handle. I haven't seen any need to merge plugins yet for FO3 (unlike FNV and Skyrim), so I can't answer questions on suitability for merging. I have successfully merged plugins for both of these other games. Are you testing with a new game or with a game you saved with a previous installation? Don't forget to configure NVAC and if needed FO3 Stutter Remover. I haven't had any of the stability problems that you mention with FO3, although I have had some problems. 

[GrantSP]

Thank you for the modlist, I'll spend a bit of time seeing where we diverge.

 

Configure NVAC? How? I can't see that it has any ini to change settings.

FSR is all good.

 

Now what you say about saved games does make sense. I have been using the original save I made after setting the UI sections correctly and just adding in new stuff and not saving over it, so I guess I should've made a new game and tried from there.

 

I'm going to try @Mator's Merge Plugin Script and see what results I get. No need to worry about that, I'm not expecting any new changes to the guide to cater for this, it's just my idea to see what happens. I am already at the 145 plugin mark with a couple of more to be added, not counting the merged/bashed patches, so it might be the case that I'm nearing that nebulous limit.

[Kelmych]

Fallout 3, unlike FNV, should be able to use 250+ plugins.

[GrantSP]

I'm getting closer, only two mods to go, Plasma Rifle and DCInteriors.

 

I found another couple of inconsistencies, I think these might be due to the newer MO version handling FOMODS better/differently.

 

Following the instructions results in five versions of Calibr.esm getting installed, two are advised to be deleted or moved to the Optional tab but there are still a couple that slip through the cracks. That is only with the options I went with, I didn't choose Zealotees or the Dragunov which I think also have this file.

 

Obviously there is the FWE version (25Kb), I'm making the assumption this is the one to go with. There is however the issue with eXcalibr Ammo Expansion Pack. The guide says to"

Get and install the "eXcalibr_Ammo_Pack_v2-3_Full_FOMOD" main file. Do not select any Overide options. Merge the "Weapons patch for 20th Century Weapons" with the main file.

 

However as it is a fomod the installer runs, no matter what settings I set MO to use, and therefore I can't choose to 'Merge' it into anything and it exists a seperate mod. That's okay so long as I know which files to move to Optional, one of which is Calibr.esm (also 25Kb).

 

Then there's the Ammuntion Schematics. It too has a Calibr.esm but there is no specific mention to use or move this version. It's larger at 26Kb and it may be the same file as found in the 20th Cent Reborn mod.

 

Thoughts?

[GrantSP]

Just can't seem to get DCInteriors to load and run. Everytime there is an immediate CTD with nothing in my logs that I can see except this.

 

Without DCI loaded the NVAC log looks like this:

 

 

23123019 _ NewVegasAntiCrash Fallout3.exe

23123019 _ 0BFD0000 07020100 nvac.dll

23123019 ! UNSUPPOR TED_EXE_ Fallout3.exe

23123031 h 00615E0E 8B4F0485 Fallout3.exe

23123031 h 005E5353 8B4E088B Fallout3.exe

23123031 h 005E5356 8B460C3B Fallout3.exe

23123031 h 005E5361 8B068B50 Fallout3.exe

23123031 h 005E5363 8B50046A Fallout3.exe

23123031 n 00000000 005E536C Fallout3.exe

...

 

 

 

with it loaded the logs just stop at the ! UNSUPPOR TED_EXE_ Fallout3.exe line.

 

I've cleaned it and it is positioned similarly to your load, though I can't see how it would make a difference, there are no shared assets in this mod.

 

Have I hit that magical bsa limit already? There are only five new bsas loaded on top of the vanilla assets.

 

Advanced Recon Thermal Nightvision (2x), JIP Commands, Unofficial Update and DCInteriors, five bsas on top of the original.

[Kelmych]

I have only one unextracted BSA in addition to the vanilla Fallout BSAs.

 

I meant configure Fallout Stutter Remover, not NVAC.

 

"Merge the "Weapons patch for 20th Century Weapons" with the main file." means to finish the installation of the main file, since it's a fomod, then install the optional file. I'll change the wording.

 

Thanks for catching the errors in not moving all the copies of calibr.esm to "Optional ESPs" except for the one in FWE.

[GrantSP]

I have just had a breakthrough, of sorts. If I disable MO's management of archives, I can successfully start the game and no issues have so far been noted.

Is the bsa limit issue linked to how MO handles them? I didn't think so.

 

Anyway, I'll extract all the extra bsas and give it another go with management back on.

Maybe the guide could have a couple of extra lines added to those mods advising extraction? 

 

 

EDIT:

Hooray!!      

 

Extracted all the bsas except DCInteriors and re-enabled MO's management of archives and it is all happening.

Amazing, I would not have picked that this install would be as fiddly as it was.

 

So, can we put this down to the bsa limit being reached? I find it hard to see it as anything else, despite it only being five extra, but the evidence seems to say bsas were the issue.

 

Well now to actually play a few hours. Thanks again.

Edited January 23, 2015 by GrantSP

[Kelmych]

The bsa limit is different, and much more restrictive, for Fallout 3 and Fallout NV than it is for Skyrim. This is apparently due to some limitation of the game engine. For Fallout it is unfortunately based on the total number of characters in the file names of the BSAs that are left unextracted.

[GrantSP]

My bsa files are now in the same state as yours, only the DCInteriors is left as a bsa on top of the vanilla assets.

I guess that means it is safest to extract all bsa files now if going past the loaded mods in this guide.

 

This is the combined character length of the bsas in my load order:

Zeta - SoundsZeta - MainThePitt - SoundsThePitt - MainPointLookout - SoundsPointLookout - MainFallout - VoicesFallout - TexturesFallout - SoundFallout - MiscFallout - MeshesFallout - MenuVoicesFallout - InvalidationBrokenSteel - SoundsBrokenSteel - MainAnchorage - SoundsAnchorage - MainDCInteriors_ComboEdition

I would've placed that figure at something inside the hexadecimal limit of 255, but adding all the characters together for my bsas totals 311. Assuming the ' - ' between words in those bsas is stripped out, that still only brings it to 261.

How this limit is calculated is a very odd mechanism it would appear.

[Kelmych]

I added a comment in the guide suggesting that all mod BSAs be extracted, since the limit seems to be one.

[GrantSP]

Just got the latest version of Wrye Flash and installed this to get my bashed patch up and running.

Without changing any of the default settings in Flash I get a small dialogue about the 'need to reset the dates on some plugins'. Assuming this isn't necessary I unchecked the "Lock Times" option by right-clicking the 'Header' in the 'Mods' tab of Flash and deselecting that option.

Is this the desired method of bashing in Flash? Never used it with Fallout 3 only ever with TES3/4/5.

 

Doing so presents me with a list of plugins that aren't full of RED and warnings about plugins sharing the same slot. So I am assuming this is what we want.

[GrantSP]

Next question. Project Beauty, the instructions don't explicitly say to use the Broken Steel and Point Lookout plugins, though these must be the only *.esps beside the MMM one in the package, but when they are active they show as unmergeable in WF and they contain changes to the merged plugin from Blackened. What's the go here? Change their tags to make them mergeable, de-activate them and not use them or create a merge from them and the Blackened plugin?

[Kelmych]

In all the Bethesda games prior to Skyrim, date/time was used for ordering mods. Locking times means no load order sorting allowed. Wrye Flash and LOOT need to change times to sort the plugins. That's why you see the relative old times on plugins even for recent plugins. I regularly see the "need to reset times" dialog box in Wrye Flash.

 

The Project Beauty/Fallout 3 Redesigned guide instructions say to keep all the plugins except ''Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp''. There should be 3 active plugins, the esm plugin and the two DLC compatibility plugins.

[GrantSP]

So do you just dismiss the dialog and continue with errors on the plugins or do you also deactivate that "lock times" option? I'm just thinking of someone that has never used Wrye Flash before. It is very off putting to see a wall of red plugins.

Perhaps a link to the Wrye Bash documentation describing this behaviour for those who have never used it before, or those like me that have forgotten how to do it?

 

So what happens with the Project Beauty DLC plugins then? They won't be touched in the bashed patch and they conflict with the Blackened merge file?

 

Nevermind. Brain fart again! :O_o:

Edited January 25, 2015 by GrantSP