GUIDE General Feedback

[Satur9]

I have used two of the alternate starts and neither one affected completing the main quest or side quests. I'm not aware of alternate start choices that might do this, but I haven't checked extensively. The two I've used are the Medical start at Rivet City and the Mechanic start at Robco. The Mechanic start does affect some quests (a few quests are easier since not all of the robots are hostile), but it doesn't preclude doing any quest. There are still lots of challenges, don't worry. The Medical start is challenging because getting to Megaton from Rivet City is extremely challenging for a low level character, and you won't be able to enter the shopping area in Rivet City until you leave for a while and return. Of the two I prefer the Mechanic start. It's worth doing the standard start once, but overall I found the alternate start more interesting.

Thanks for letting me know, Kelmych.

 

I imagine the conflicting alternate starts were more faction specific, like the Enclave or BoS, but I don't recall the details.

[pStyl3]

Am I correct, that if FOSE is installed, FO3 needs to be run through fose_loader.exe (from within MO)? I ask, because I'm in the process to start modding FO3 and until now I have only made the Fallout3.exe large address aware, disabled GFWL and installed FOSE 1.2b2 (+ cleaned the official plugins). And now I get this error message, that I have "an unknown version of fallout".

 

I own the goty version of FO3 on steam, which is apparently a cut "low violence" version (german players are blessed with that :facepalm: ), but according to fose's readme, that version should be supported aswell. So here I am sitting now, wondering what to do. Does someone have an idea?

 

This is how my FO3 folder looks like (with the FOSE files inside it). My FO3 version is apparently 1.0.0.15.

Edited January 21, 2015 by pStyl3

[Kelmych]

I'm not sure since I don't have the german version. The actual FO3 executable for the no gore version is Fallout3ng.exe. I don't know whether the standard GFWL patch or the LAA enabler (3Gb patch) work properly on it. My Fallout 3 version is 1.7.0.3 . What is the version number for your Fallout3ng.exe?

[GrantSP]

Yes, your assumption about MO configuration is correct. If FOSE is installed it will use that to run the game.

 

Which exe is run to start the game? The Fallout3 or Fallout3NG?

 

To me it looks like FOSE has the 'No gore' version only for 1.7 onwards, your 1.0.0.15 is trying to load the standard 'gory' version. Not sure, just educated guesses.

Is there an update for your version?

[pStyl3]

Fallout3ng.exe .. totally overlooked that executable . If I start FO3 through Fallout3.exe, the displayed version is  1.0.0.15, if I start it through Fallout3ng.exe, the displayed version is 1.7.0.3.

 

I gonna try enabling the large address for Fallout3ng.exe now, let's see if that helps.

 

Edit:

Hmm .. no. The START.bat file that is used to enable the large address could successfully do it's job on Fallout3ng.exe (once I renamed it to Fallout3.exe prior to using START.bat .. afterwards I renamed it back). So I put the modified Fallout3ng.exe back into my steam folder, but FOSE still gives me that error message. GFWL is disabled aswell, so yeah...

 

Edit2:

I believe I found a workaround.    Will comment later once I verified everything.

Edited January 21, 2015 by pStyl3

[GrantSP]

hmm... sorry, as I don't have the Steam version I can't be sure what that does. I'm assuming they make subtle checks to ensure no cheaters get through and that patch might flag as a 'cheat'.

 

I actually just use the general 4GB patcher from NT Core. Does the same job. I do know that there is a specific FalloutNV patcher out there to get around the Steam issue,  maybe the Steam version of Fallout 3 needs something similar?

[Kelmych]

 

Proposed additional section in the guide for folks who are new to FWE and MMM :

 

----------------------------------------

 

FOR THOSE UNFAMILIAR WITH FALLOUT WANDERER EDITION AND MART'S MUTANT MOD

 

If you are unsure of how to set up the two key mods in this guide (Fallout Wanderer Edition and Martigen's Mutant Mod), here are some suggestions.

 

The combination of these two mods makes the game richer and considerably more challenging. However, you can adjust the difficulty by changing their settings, and even backpedal to near-vanilla gameplay.

 

Both these mods, and several others, can have their options set right in your PIPBoy. The control modules are part of your Items menus ; most of them are at the top of your Apparel PIPBoy screen.

 

Mart's Mutant Mod (MMM)

We suggest that you keep everything at default, except for these three bits :

- Increased Spawn Settings - select Slightly Increased Spawns (1-2)

- Other Spawns - turn off the new behemoth chance

- Ghoul Options - set the rise chance to 25

 

You can access the MMM mod settings even during the Vault 101 origin sequence. In fact it's safest to do your settings while you're still in Vault 101, before any outdoors cell gets populated.

 

Fallout Wanderer Edition (FWE)

Keep everything at default, except for these bits :

- Damage and combat - set both radioactivity and falling damage to 2 (Moderate)

- Loot - set vendor caps to 0% (most caps)

- Feature settings - have bobbleheads provide a +1 to S.P.E.C.I.A.L., and equipped armour have a 50% carry weight bonus

- Primary Needs - in the Hunger menu set food to heal, and in the thirst menu set drinks to heal

- Ability Hotkeys - set Sprint to Mouse Button #3, Bullet Time to Mouse Button #4 (if your mouse has those)

 

You can access the FWE mod settings as soon as you're in the Wasteland, but not during the Vault 101 origin sequence.

 

These settings are meant to conserve a FWE+MMM experience that is quite close to the default, but less overwhelming and inconvenient as you discover the modified gameplay and determine your preferences. And it keeps the bobbleheads at the +1 level since raising your S.P.E.C.I.A.L.s is a Fallout tradition.

 

I added a reference in the guide to "https://wiki.step-project.com/User:Ghostwise/Fallout3_ControlPanelMenu_Settings". If you create this file in your home directory on the wiki and add the material in your post to the file other users will be able to see your recommendations for Fallout 3 mod settings  .

[Ghostwise]

The patch for the Millenia weapons was quickly added on the Nexus - https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/20945/?

[Ghostwise]

It looks like I didn't make the Control menu page and Hotkeys page that provides some recommendations on mod settings, particularly FWE, sufficiently apparent in the guide.

 

All STEP guides are in need an editor and a layout person. :-) But heh, that's normal for community net projects. The one I run took years to scrape together enough founds to hire an UI/UX guy, and it'll be months until we can migrate toward the new, clearer design.

 

 

I prefer to have the game be challenging but not rediculously so, and in particular I want to avoid having characters get many skills with high skill levels and multiple SPECIAL characteristics with high levels until near the end of the game (in games with all the  DLC and all the quests) and even then I'd still like the player to have to make choices about which skills/SPECIAL to raise. 

I see it more from the point of view of the relatively uninformed newcomer, especially one who has an image of Fallout 3 (and NV, and Elder Scrolls games) as being unchallenging.

 

If the difficulty is what an informed gamer would find challenging, there are good odds the newbies to a FWE/MMM game will be caught cold and overwhelmed. Which means in turn a non-trivial chance of declaring that this way of playing Fallout is the WORST THING EVER, giving up and feeling bitter since modding the game took so long.

 

And I suspect that scaling back the difficulty would not affect spawns on cells that have already been populated with higher MMM settings, such as the raiders in the open, back section of the Springvale school. Thus giving the impression that the difficulty cannot really be turned down - and this all takes place at the point where the player character is at their weakest and most vulnerable.

 

Whereas starting at a (slightly) lower difficulty level lets good players decide that they are totally awesome, and crank up the difficulty a bit as they get the hang of it. Much less chance of people cursing you in the forums that way. :-p

 

But then it's just a matter of explanations and pedagogy, not a either/or thing.

 

EDIT - text republished on my user page - https://wiki.step-project.com/User:Ghostwise

Edited January 22, 2015 by Ghostwise

[Kelmych]

You have some good points. I'll start up a separate thread about configuring the game.

[pStyl3]

Okay, I have finished modding FO3 to 97%, there isn't much left to do for me. I have installed all the mods I currently want (mostly using C&PD .. great guide!), cleaned all the mods accordingly. Some feedback:

 

#1

Edit2:

I believe I found a workaround. Will comment later once I verified everything.

I have fixed my problems with the german steam goty nogore version of FO3. These files are shipped through Steam:

Fallout3.exe
Fallout3.exe.cat
Fallout3.exe.cfg
Fallout3ng.exe
Fallout3ng.exe.cat
Fallout3ng.exe.cfg

Running FOSE through fose_loader.exe just like that throws the mentioned error message (with or without MO, that didn't make a change). What I had to do, was to rename the first three files to:

_Fallout3.exe
_Fallout3.exe.cat
_Fallout3.exe.cfg

.. so that FOSE (I think) doesn't mix them up with the "ng" versions. After that I could successfully start FO3 through FOSE. I then continued on and removed the "ng" part out of the three remanining file names (so Fallout3ng.exe --> Fallout3.exe), so that Mod Organizer would recognize them. That's it.

 

 

#2

DCInteriors Project

 

I can't start FO3 through FOSE within MO, unless I extract "DCInteriors_ComboEdition.bsa" (and afterwards hide the .bsa file). Maybe there should be added a note to the C&PD guide?

 

 

#3

I can see, that you told Freso, that "Laurens_Bathroom_poetry_V1.esp" has 2 ITMs. IS that really correct? Using xEdit 3.0.33 svn1879 I can't find any ITMs (nor UDRs or deleted Navmeshes).

 

 

#4

Regarding the 5 quest mods:

- A Note Easily Missed

- An Evening With Mister Manchester

- To sleep - perchance to dream

- In the Shadow of the Swamp

- The Mantis Imperative

 

Should I be safe to have them all activated right at the start of the game, or should I only activate the first one, play & finish the quest, then install the second, play % finish that one, et ceterea.. ?

 

 

#5

I am using the very latest Beta snapshot build of LOOT, which is currently LOOT 0.7.0 Beta 3-94. This version of LOOT produced the following load order for me:

 

Fallout3.esm

Anchorage.esm

ThePitt.esm

StreetLights.esm

BrokenSteel.esm

PointLookout.esm

Zeta.esm

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm

Advanced Recon Tech.esm

aHUD.esm

DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esm

EVE.esm

AWorldOfPainFO3.esm

CALIBR.esm

CRAFT.esm

FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm

Detect Traps.esm

iHUD.esm

Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

Project Beauty.esm

RH_IRONSIGHTS.esm

xCALIBR.esm

Advanced Recon Range Finder.esp

Advanced Recon Tech.esp

Advanced Recon Tech - Detect Traps.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp

Advanced Recon Tech FWE.esp

Blackened FWE + MMM + EVE + Project Beauty.esp

Caravan Merchants Heal After Combat.esp

CASM.esp

CharonImproved.esp

Confessor Cromwell has a Break_EV.esp

DarNifiedUIF3.esp

Detect Traps - DLC.esp

Detect Traps - Perk.esp

DynamicCrosshair.esp

Flashlight-LOS.esp

FO3_WRP.esp

GlowingGhouls-MMM.esp

GNR Enhanced.esp

HeirApparent.esp

WeaponModKits.esp

RH_WMK_Bridge.esp

WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp

UUF3P - FWE Patch.esp

Advanced Recon Gear.esp

Laurens_Bathroom_poetry_V1.esp

The Mantis Imperative - Jello.esp

CALIBRv14 Ammunition Schematics for FWE-WMK-CRAFT-V1_3-18639.esp

Creature Companion Fixes.esp

Detect Traps - The Traponator 4000.esp

PLweightadjust.esp

NotSoFast.esp

The Mantis Imperative - Mantis.esp

Dree Perks.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp

JIP Companions Command & Control.esp

JIP Selective-Fire.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp

megalight.esp

Millenia_AKS74U.esp

WMKAA12Shotgun.esp

Millenia_CombatShotgun_replacer.esp

Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp

Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp

RH_EVE_Bridge.esp

IntoTheDeepWoods.esp

Scout Outfits.esp

ZL-SVD-CALIBR.esp

CONELRAD 640-1240.esp

ZL-SVD.esp

Refugee Clothing.esp

DIM TYPE3clothesRETAIL.esp

JessiCompanion.esp

Stimpak Counter.esp

The Mantis Imperative - Nasty Zeta No Scaling.esp

WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp

WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp

WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp

WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp

WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp

PLFewerItems.esp

YearlingBooks.esp

 

 

Would there be anything, that looks wrong in your eyes? Note so, I can successfully start FO3 with this load order. What I would like to know is, if you think that anything in this load order could be "bad" in the long run.

[Kelmych]

Okay, I have finished modding FO3 to 97%, there isn't much left to do for me. I have installed all the mods I currently want (mostly using C&PD .. great guide!), cleaned all the mods accordingly. Some feedback:

 

#1

 

I have fixed my problems with the german steam goty nogore version of FO3. These files are shipped through Steam:

Fallout3.exe
Fallout3.exe.cat
Fallout3.exe.cfg
Fallout3ng.exe
Fallout3ng.exe.cat
Fallout3ng.exe.cfg

Running FOSE through fose_loader.exe just like that throws the mentioned error message (with or without MO, that didn't make a change). What I had to do, was to rename the first three files to:

_Fallout3.exe
_Fallout3.exe.cat
_Fallout3.exe.cfg

.. so that FOSE (I think) doesn't mix them up with the "ng" versions. After that I could successfully start FO3 through FOSE. I then continued on and removed the "ng" part out of the three remanining file names (so Fallout3ng.exe --> Fallout3.exe), so that Mod Organizer would recognize them. That's it.

 

Great, and thanks. I'll add this to the guide.

#2

DCInteriors Project

 

I can't start FO3 through FOSE within MO, unless I extract "DCInteriors_ComboEdition.bsa" (and afterwards hide the .bsa file). Maybe there should be added a note to the C&PD guide?

 

I am only able to use one unextracted BSA in addition to the vanilla BSAs, and it happens that I have the DC Interiors one as unextracted. Try making sure that all the other mod BSAs are extracted and see if DC Interiors needs to be extracted.

#3

I can see, that you told Freso, that "Laurens_Bathroom_poetry_V1.esp" has 2 ITMs. IS that really correct? Using xEdit 3.0.33 svn1879 I can't find any ITMs (nor UDRs or deleted Navmeshes).

 

I reloaded the original version of this mod and checked the plugin with both FO3Edit 3.0.32 and 3.0.33 svn 1879. I get 2 ITMs with both versions of FO3Edit.

#4

Regarding the 5 quest mods:

- A Note Easily Missed

- An Evening With Mister Manchester

- To sleep - perchance to dream

- In the Shadow of the Swamp

- The Mantis Imperative

 

Should I be safe to have them all activated right at the start of the game, or should I only activate the first one, play & finish the quest, then install the second, play % finish that one, et ceterea.. ?

 

It's fine to start them all at the beginning, and this has the advantage of putting some of the items in loot from the beginning. I'll change the guide a little. It's still best to do do the first 3 quests in order and to do them as early as feasible, especially the Manchester quest. The first quest starts near some dangerous regions, so it can be a little challenging to get there.

#5

I am using the very latest Beta snapshot build of LOOT, which is currently LOOT 0.7.0 Beta 3-94. This version of LOOT produced the following load order for me:

 

Fallout3.esm

Anchorage.esm

ThePitt.esm

StreetLights.esm

BrokenSteel.esm

PointLookout.esm

Zeta.esm

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm

Advanced Recon Tech.esm

aHUD.esm

DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esm

EVE.esm

AWorldOfPainFO3.esm

CALIBR.esm

CRAFT.esm

FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm

Detect Traps.esm

iHUD.esm

Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

Project Beauty.esm

RH_IRONSIGHTS.esm

xCALIBR.esm

Advanced Recon Range Finder.esp

Advanced Recon Tech.esp

Advanced Recon Tech - Detect Traps.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp

Advanced Recon Tech FWE.esp

Blackened FWE + MMM + EVE + Project Beauty.esp

Caravan Merchants Heal After Combat.esp

CASM.esp

CharonImproved.esp

Confessor Cromwell has a Break_EV.esp

DarNifiedUIF3.esp

Detect Traps - DLC.esp

Detect Traps - Perk.esp

DynamicCrosshair.esp

Flashlight-LOS.esp

FO3_WRP.esp

GlowingGhouls-MMM.esp

GNR Enhanced.esp

HeirApparent.esp

WeaponModKits.esp

RH_WMK_Bridge.esp

WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp

UUF3P - FWE Patch.esp

Advanced Recon Gear.esp

Laurens_Bathroom_poetry_V1.esp

The Mantis Imperative - Jello.esp

CALIBRv14 Ammunition Schematics for FWE-WMK-CRAFT-V1_3-18639.esp

Creature Companion Fixes.esp

Detect Traps - The Traponator 4000.esp

PLweightadjust.esp

NotSoFast.esp

The Mantis Imperative - Mantis.esp

Dree Perks.esp

FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp

JIP Companions Command & Control.esp

JIP Selective-Fire.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp

megalight.esp

Millenia_AKS74U.esp

WMKAA12Shotgun.esp

Millenia_CombatShotgun_replacer.esp

Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp

Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp

RH_EVE_Bridge.esp

IntoTheDeepWoods.esp

Scout Outfits.esp

ZL-SVD-CALIBR.esp

CONELRAD 640-1240.esp

ZL-SVD.esp

Refugee Clothing.esp

DIM TYPE3clothesRETAIL.esp

JessiCompanion.esp

Stimpak Counter.esp

The Mantis Imperative - Nasty Zeta No Scaling.esp

WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp

WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp

WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp

WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp

WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp

PLFewerItems.esp

YearlingBooks.esp

 

 

Would there be anything, that looks wrong in your eyes? Note so, I can successfully start FO3 with this load order. What I would like to know is, if you think that anything in this load order could be "bad" in the long run.

There are a few issues. I'll add a url pointer to a downloadable version of the LOOT userlist.yaml I use which has some additional entries to help load order, etc.

[GrantSP]

I'll add my 2 cents worth to this.

 

1. Now that you mention your solution, I seem to recall reading something about renaming the executables, so I concur, adding this as a note to installing Fallout 3 somewhere will be very helpful for all our German brethren.
2. I too was having issues getting FO3 to start when I activated DCInteriors. Like @Kelmych though, I now only have one bsa active, and it is the DCInteriors one, so the issue isn't with that mod but the number of bsas loaded.
3. I had to edit Lauren's Bathroom Poetry as it was reported as being dirty and it did in fact have 2 ITMs.

[pStyl3]

Could you please tell me which exact ITMs were actually cleaned? So what does FO3Edit tells in the messages tab, if the ITMs are removed? I just tried it again, reinstalling Lauren's Bathroom Poetry and neither FO3Edit 3.0.32 nor 3.0.33 svn1879 will find any ITMs for me, definitely.

 

That should mean, that this is actually a quite unique case. The Mod has only Fallout3.esm as a master .. and it has 2 ITMs towards the english Fallout3.esm, but at it seems no ITMs towards a german nogore Fallout3.esm (which is in reallity Fallout3ng.esm).

[GrantSP]

Sure, no problem...

 

 

Okay just restored my dirty copy and ran xEdit. This is the message after cleaning:

[Filtering done]  Processed Records: 763187 Elapsed Time: 00:02
Removing: Tenpenny01 "Tenpenny Tower Lobby" [CELL:00017F34]
Removing: GRUP Interior Cell Sub-Block 0
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 1512, Removed Records: 2, Elapsed Time: 00:00