ACCEPTED STEP Patches

[z929669]

The STEP Patches documentation could use improvement, particularly with regard to the STEP Combined Plugins
 
The doc needs to inform users of the purpose and requirements of each plugin distinctly right up front. This seems to have been done for the main plugin:

 

Additional Patches

The following plugins are included in the STEP Comobined Patch and can be removed or disabled for the load order.

- From Static Mesh Improvement Mod:

• SMIM-FarmhouseFlickingFix.esp (not included here, but is included in Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp)
• SMIM-FurnitureChestSnowFix.esp
• SMIM-DragonbornTernFix.esp
• SMIM-DungeonsCliffsIceSkirts.esp
• SMIM-ShackRoofFixes.esp
• SMIM-ShackRoofFixesDragonborn.esp

- From No Spinning Death Animation:

• dD - No Spinning Death Animation.esp

- From More Salt Please:

• These plugins are not included, but were replaced with a different version, so they are not needed any longer
• More Salt Please.esp
• More Salt Please - Dragonborn addon.esp

- From No NPC Greetings:

• Slightly Reduced Distance NPC Greetings.esp

 

... but why not for the HF version? Admittedly, it takes a bit of effort to determine how to use these plugins, and there is definitely uncertainty remaining after reading the doc.

 

Detailed change log is great for those that understand that level of detail, but there is nothing describing (in explicit terms) the main points of how to use the plugins.

 

Although annoying, this user does have a minor point.

 

EDIT: The STEP Patches are distinct from the STEP Compat Plugins in both form and function, so the latter either deserve their own mod page, or they should be very obviously called out as having a different purpose than the STEP Patches and are to be used by more advanced modders.

[singdavion]

All I ask is that you add something like this:

"Only users who are using the STEP Core patch can not install this mod. If you aren't using it, then do install the mod."

Word it differently but you get the point. The only thing better than being specific is being more specific.

[EssArrBee]

The STEP Combined Plugins are designed for anyone to use. They are different, but I added them as a courtesy and for the future if I need to split the plugins due to adding more to them.

 

I have an idea of how we can do this. I'll put some instructions at the top of the STEP guide that says that we patch the entire guide as either all of STEP Core or all or STEP Extended, so if only installing part of the guide then install the patches for those mods along the way.

[z929669]

The instructions and description needs more than just that. That would have saved you trouble, but others will surely be uncertain how to use the "Combined Plugins" without more generalized and explicit instructions.

 

You made a good point, but I just did not like the way you made it in the other thread and an surprised you did not post before you completed the guide setup ;)

 

EDIT: ... @SRB, that sounds great ... if you also include more explicit instructions on the mod page itself (or here on this thread), I will assist.

[singdavion]

It's no problem. I was pretty annoyed since I've been working on modding my game for 3 days straight (using STEP as a base)

I realized that I messed up the entire process at one point and so I had to restart. So this time I really wanted to get it exactly right.

[z929669]

I have to admit that "Choosing the Correct Plugin" section on the mod page instructions does pretty explicitly describe how to use the patches ... so any advice on how that might be unclear and how to fix would be helpful.

 

@SRB

There is another recent example relating to this that should be addressed, too.

[EssArrBee]

I have to admit that "Choosing the Correct Plugin" section on the mod page instructions does pretty explicitly describe how to use the patches ... so any advice on how that might be unclear and how to fix would be helpful.

I did make that pretty clear with stupid simple questions, but I understand the point about installing everything and then getting to the end and you have to go back and install a bunch of stuff that is included in a patch you can't use. I think some clarification before starting to install mods will help. We can just write a small section that says, "Hey, before you start decide if you need the mod's patches or the STEP patches."

Oh this may all be moot soon if the dev version of Wrye Bash moves to release. It can patch almost everything I do with the STEP patches. I'd just keep the combined plugins.

[singdavion]

I did make that pretty clear with stupid simple questions, but I understand the point about installing everything and then getting to the end and you have to go back and install a bunch of stuff that is included in a patch you can't use. I think some clarification before starting to install mods will help. We can just write a small section that says, "Hey, before you start decide if you need the mod's patches or the STEP patches."

Oh this may all be moot soon if the dev version of Wrye Bash moves to release. It can patch almost everything I do with the STEP patches. I'd just keep the combined plugins.

I think this is probably a good idea.

I think that the STEP patches should be modular. I guess maybe that's a big change but it would help a lot and make it a lot more meaningful opposed to "use this if you have all the core mods"

 

So something like this:

"This step patch fixes the issue 'Bring out your Dead' has with 'The Choice is yours'

 

If you make all these small but modular patches and fixes, people can pick and choose exactly what they need and all these problems can be completley extinguished.

[EssArrBee]

I think this is probably a good idea.

I think that the STEP patches should be modular. I guess maybe that's a big change but it would help a lot and make it a lot more meaningful opposed to "use this if you have all the core mods"

 

So something like this:

"This step patch fixes the issue 'Bring out your Dead' has with 'The Choice is yours'

 

If you make all these small but modular patches and fixes, people can pick and choose exactly what they need and all these problems can be completley extinguished.

Modular patches are already available from the mods themselves. I don't have the time to maintain tons of patches for different setups. It's best to just inform a user to decide before using the guide if they should download those extra patches.

[z929669]

Agree, we don't want to support modular patches and all of the maintenance required to keep them relevant. One patch for STEP:Core and another for STEP:Extended is all that is needed, since that is all we officially support here.

 

If SRB wants to maintain any "Combined Plugin" patches that do not expect a strict STEP installation, then that is fine; however, we only officially support Legendary Ed and STEP:Core/Extended, so the combined options are above and beyond our mandate, and I would consider dropping them entirely and asking Pack authors to maintain their own versions.

 

I would rather not support use of WB instructions as part of our guide for installing variations of STEP. We should continue providing only STEP:Core/Extended patches exclusively for strict STEP and provide an ancillary guide as part of the WB Guide (or the TESEdit Guide) to allow users and Pack authors to create and maintain their own custom patches if they so desire.

[EssArrBee]

Agree, we don't want to support modular patches and all of the maintenance required to keep them relevant. One patch for STEP:Core and another for STEP:Extended is all that is needed, since that is all we officially support here.

 

If SRB wants to maintain any "Combined Plugin" patches that do not expect a strict STEP installation, then that is fine; however, we only officially support Legendary Ed and STEP:Core/Extended, so the combined options are above and beyond our mandate, and I would consider dropping them entirely and asking Pack authors to maintain their own versions.

 

I would rather not support use of WB instructions as part of our guide for installing variations of STEP. We should continue providing only STEP:Core/Extended patches exclusively for strict STEP and provide an ancillary guide as part of the WB Guide (or the TESEdit Guide) to allow users and Pack authors to create and maintain their own custom patches if they so desire.

The Combined Plugin is my attempt to future proof some stuff, so it will be sticking around. It is actually the base for which I build everything else off of. I just gave it a STEP name in case some users don't want all of STEP. Wrye Bash is only important for one reason, the Bashed Patch. Nothing else works as well since the tagging system is so dynamic. The next version should solve about 90% of conflicts between AOS, RWT, and the UPs, which would mean the STEP Combined Plugin would pretty much be the only plugin you'd need with a Bashed Patch.

 

Dammit, now I completely forgot what I was going to post. Should have typed that first.

[z929669]

... too much cactus juice?

[EssArrBee]

Now I remember. What about a Data Dictionary flag for being required for the STEP Patches. IsCorePatch or IsExtendPatch? Then I could do the whole {{#ask: [[Category:Mods]] [[isCorePatch::true]]}} thing on a page to list stuff dynamicalistically.

 

EIDT: HAHA.. yep to much the last two weeks. Need to go back to work to pronto.

[z929669]

I would suggest a string tag like: "STEPPatchReq"

With arguments like: "Extended", "Core", "All" and "None"

 

Alternatively, we could use two properties as you suggest. Let's see what s4n prefers.

 

Also, keep in mind that there is a "IsMerged" attribute for all mod pages ... are you using that (see this example)?

[EssArrBee]

Yes I am using that IsMerged, but it's for completely merged mods. I would like a flag for a mod that is required to be installed for using a patch so I can query it from the mod pages. I'd just rather store it in the DD so I don't have to keep track of it arbitrarily on my own using a text file. I want to do it once and then update it as I go along. It's something I have to have, it was just an idea.