DROPPED Majestic Mountains - Patch for Dynamic Volumetric Lighting and Sun Shadows (by Sakatsuky)

[z929669]

27 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

Grrr... solving these mesh conflicts are a real pain. Just hide the Mountainous conflicts and call it a day. I highly doubt Skyrim Landscape and Water Fixes fixes anything important on the mountains.

Just looked at one example MountainCliff02.nif. This mod's version is simply MM with double sided flag. 

Skyrim Landscape and Water Fixes has 3000 more triangles AND double sided flag. It also adds a new mesh node probably to fix contours and/or texture flickering. It also gets rid of the MM cube map in slot 5 of the main mesh and the map in slot 7.

So just looking at this one example and re-reading its Nexus Description, I suspect Skyrim Landscape and Water Fixes is going a bit further and likely should overwrite as well. Leaving this in Foundation as you suggest (after MM) is the way to go IMO.

[DoubleYou]

27 minutes ago, z929669 said:

Just looked at one example MountainCliff02.nif. This mod's version is simply MM with double sided flag. 

Skyrim Landscape and Water Fixes has 3000 more triangles AND double sided flag. It also adds a new mesh node probably to fix contours and/or texture flickering. It also gets rid of the MM cube map in slot 5 of the main mesh and the map in slot 7.

So just looking at this one example and re-reading its Nexus Description, I suspect Skyrim Landscape and Water Fixes is going a bit further and likely should overwrite as well. Leaving this in Foundation as you suggest (after MM) is the way to go IMO.

Well, thanks for actually looking into that. I agree with your assessment. I highly doubt wizkid wouldn't double-side all of these if he double sides that one.

[z929669]

Updated OP and tag

[DoubleYou]

Added to dev guide and changelog.

[z929669]

2 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

Added to dev guide and changelog.

Thanks. I obviously hadn't gotten to changelog yet. Was waiting until we had it all figured out over here for all of the pending mods.

[Mousetick]

2 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

I highly doubt Skyrim Landscape and Water Fixes fixes anything important on the mountains.

I agree. This mod should be treated as a basic "better than vanilla" fallback fix when it comes to meshes, like USSEP. All meshes from all other mods should win over it.

Suggested overwrite order that doesn't require any hiding because it flows naturally and logically (from broad to specific, from basic to refined, with improvements and fixes positioned alongside the things that are improved/fixed, not segregated in their own separate category):

• DynDOLOD Resources
• ...
• Skyrim Landscape & Water Fixes
• ...
• SMIM
• ...
• Majestic Mountains
• Majestic Mountains - DoubleSided Meshes (this mod)
• Skyrim - A Mountainous Experience (Double-sided version)
• ...
• Other meshes and mesh fixes...

Nothing to hide here, which makes all conflicts clearly visible and the overwrite prioritization easily understandable just by looking at them in MO2. As soon as stuff is hidden it becomes a lot harder to understand why mods are sorted the way they are on the left pane.

[z929669]

11 hours ago, Mousetick said:

I agree. This mod should be treated as a basic "better than vanilla" fallback fix when it comes to meshes, like USSEP. All meshes from all other mods should win over it.

Suggested overwrite order that doesn't require any hiding because it flows naturally and logically (from broad to specific, from basic to refined, with improvements and fixes positioned alongside the things that are improved/fixed, not segregated in their own separate category):

• DynDOLOD Resources
• ...
• Skyrim Landscape & Water Fixes
• ...
• SMIM
• ...
• Majestic Mountains
• Majestic Mountains - DoubleSided Meshes (this mod)
• Skyrim - A Mountainous Experience (Double-sided version)
• ...
• Other meshes and mesh fixes...

Nothing to hide here, which makes all conflicts clearly visible and the overwrite prioritization easily understandable just by looking at them in MO2. As soon as stuff is hidden it becomes a lot harder to understand why mods are sorted the way they are on the left pane.

Yes, this is exactly how I have it set up. This way SLaWF overwrites all, since it's highest priority in LO.

[Mousetick]

This is very confusing. Why do you want to overwrite MM meshes with SLaW meshes? They're not at all alike.

16 hours ago, z929669 said:

Skyrim Landscape and Water Fixes has 3000 more triangles AND double sided flag. It also adds a new mesh node probably to fix contours and/or texture flickering.

The additional triangles are for improved collision compared to vanilla. The SLaW version is based on vanilla. The additional mesh node comes from the vanilla mesh, which has it too. It's not a fix or an improvement at all.

Quote from SLaWF comments section (currently at bottom of page 3):

Quote

• Q from user: Hey is this compatible with "No Sunlight Through Mountains" and should it overwrite this mod?
• A from WizKid: SLaWF has been doing this for ages, let our mod overwrite  "No Sunlight Through Mountains", many of our NIFs also include improved collisions and other fixes

Quote from SLaWF compatibility section on main page (emphasis added), and confirmed in the comments section:

Quote

Let meshes from other WiZkiD mods and Majestic Mountains overwrite SLaWF.

The MM meshes are based on vanilla, but largely rebuilt, and most of all, they use a different texture set than vanilla, so they look different and are consistent with the rest of the MM aesthetic.

Comparison shots of mountaincliff02: Vanilla > SLaW > MM (Double-sided)

If you want MM meshes with MM texture sets + Double-Sided + Improved collision, there is this mod: Majestic Mountains - More Accurate Collision (by Korodic).

1 hour ago, z929669 said:

This way SLaWF overwrites all, since it's highest priority in LO.

I was suggesting (and showing) the complete opposite.

SLaWF currently has highest priority for assets because it's in the 'Fixes' category of the STEP guide, causing unwarranted conflicts that need to be resolved by hiding stuff.

It should have lowest priority. Considering these points:

• SLaWF is a hodge-podge of various fixes (and gameplay changes). The fixes are "better than nothing" on top of vanilla, they're vanilla-based and not essential. The gameplay changes should not be included in this mod, but that's beside the point.
• The SLaWF plugin is sorted very high by LOOT, meaning it's considered very low priority and should be overridden/overwritten by most other mods. Like USSEP.
• Consequently its assets should be treated the same: they should have very low priority too and be overwritten by most other mods which provide actual specific improvements and features over, or deviations from, vanilla.
• Because its assets are loose files (they should really be in a BSA to make things easier), they need to be sorted very high on the left pane to have very low priority.

If you move SLaWF to 'Foundation' for example, there will be no hiding necessary.

Imagine USSEP came with loose assets instead of a BSA, where you would put it in the guide: in 'Foundation', or in 'Fixes'? And how much hiding would you have to apply?

[DoubleYou]

56 minutes ago, Mousetick said:

This is very confusing. Why do you want to overwrite MM meshes with SLaW meshes? They're not at all alike.

The additional triangles are for improved collision compared to vanilla. The SLaW version is based on vanilla. The additional mesh node comes from the vanilla mesh, which has it too. It's not a fix or an improvement at all.

Quote from SLaWF comments section (currently at bottom of page 3):

Quote from SLaWF compatibility section on main page (emphasis added), and confirmed in the comments section:

The MM meshes are based on vanilla, but largely rebuilt, and most of all, they use a different texture set than vanilla, so they look different and are consistent with the rest of the MM aesthetic.

Comparison shots of mountaincliff02: Vanilla > SLaW > MM (Double-sided)

If you want MM meshes with MM texture sets + Double-Sided + Improved collision, there is this mod: Majestic Mountains - More Accurate Collision (by Korodic).

I was suggesting (and showing) the complete opposite.

SLaWF currently has highest priority for assets because it's in the 'Fixes' category of the STEP guide, causing unwarranted conflicts that need to be resolved by hiding stuff.

It should have lowest priority. Considering these points:

• SLaWF is a hodge-podge of various fixes (and gameplay changes). The fixes are "better than nothing" on top of vanilla, they're vanilla-based and not essential. The gameplay changes should not be included in this mod, but that's beside the point.
• The SLaWF plugin is sorted very high by LOOT, meaning it's considered very low priority and should be overridden/overwritten by most other mods. Like USSEP.
• Consequently its assets should be treated the same: they should have very low priority too and be overwritten by most other mods which provide actual specific improvements and features over, or deviations from, vanilla.
• Because its assets are loose files (they should really be in a BSA to make things easier), they need to be sorted very high on the left pane to have very low priority.

If you move SLaWF to 'Foundation' for example, there will be no hiding necessary.

Imagine USSEP came with loose assets instead of a BSA, where you would put it in the guide: in 'Foundation', or in 'Fixes'? And how much hiding would you have to apply?

Thanks you so much for this! We definitely need to at least hide these mesh files, or consider moving SLaWF to 04-Foundation where, arguably, it has always belonged.

[z929669]

Ditto ... clearly, I have not looked at these mesh conflicts comprehensively, and I failed to load the texture path into NifSkope (duh)

I think we should move this to Foundation then at lowest conflict priority and consider using the mod Mousetick linked. I will create that mod page and check it out.

[DoubleYou]

This mod never updated with Majestic Mountains version 4, so we likely can't use it anymore, since T4 reworked his meshes. The author has indicated his intention to update, however.

[z929669]

3 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

This mod never updated with Majestic Mountains version 4, so we likely can't use it anymore, since T4 reworked his meshes. The author has indicated his intention to update, however.

Thanks for noticing this. We also have these to consider (the first one is this mod, since I don't want the long name):

---

More Accurate Collision looks to have been updated for latest MM.

I assume the CC patch is good?

[DoubleYou]

1 hour ago, z929669 said:

Thanks for noticing this. We also have these to consider (the first one is this mod, since I don't want the long name):

---

More Accurate Collision looks to have been updated for latest MM.

I assume the CC patch is good?

Our CC patch is probably unneeded now, as it looks like he might have fixed this officially. I checked More Accurate Collision, and it's fine. Not sure what mod is that "Patch for EVLas" ... isn't that this mod?

[z929669]

32 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

Our CC patch is probably unneeded now, as it looks like he might have fixed this officially. I checked More Accurate Collision, and it's fine. Not sure what mod is that "Patch for EVLas" ... isn't that this mod?

Yes, noted in my previous.

[Mousetick]

Still no update for MM 4.0... I got tired of waiting so I did the double-siding myself with the help of these great xEdit scripts: Nif Batch Processing Scripts. They automate the whole process very nicely, no need to open NifSkope and edit each mesh one by one! It took less than 5 minutes.

Perhaps you could do the same for the guide, and put in a patch or something? Just a suggestion...

As indicated on this mod's page, the folders to double-side are:

/meshes/landscape/mountains
/meshes/landscape/mountains/snow
/meshes/landscape/unique