DynDOLOD Beta for Skyrim Special Edition, Skyrim VR and Enderal SE 2.98

[Godis]

I just started a new game again, and it seems to work now. Must have been related to the use of an older version before (that I used in my prior playthrough, also when I didn't change any mods that affect LODs).. Weird. But it was my fault obviously. Nevermind :)

[sheson]

Is it nomal or expected that I always get some unattached instances of DynDolod syripts in my savegame? I just started a new game, and just checked my last savegame file. It found four SHESON_* script instances (_Firstborn, _LODObject, _Master, _Minion), as well as a form- and keyword-instance. So I followed the clean save procedure by deactivating DynDOLOD in the MCM, go inside a house, check it's still deactivated, save and quit. Start game again withtout DynDOLOD.esm and DynDOLOD.esp enabled, load save, wait a minute, save again, quit, enable plugins and start game, load save, go outside, wait for initialization message and save! And the resulting savegame file suddenly included the same unattached instances again (yes, I cleaned them before with FallrimTools to see if they appear again). So I thought it might be something wrong with my installation. So followed the uninstallation procedure (like above) but this time uninstalled DynDOLOD completely and rebuilt it entirely from scratch (also tripple checked that all necessary plugins were activated, while unecessary ones were disabled). Well, this time I found some more unattached instances, but that's expected due to DynDOLOD was completely removed atm. However, I tried it both ways - left the savegame file untouched by FallrimTools, as also tried with cleaning all unattached instances from it before installing the new version. But no matter what I do, each time I have it installed, I get about 5 to 6 unattached instances, mostly the same ones I mentioned at the beginning.

One time I get those first when I saved inside a house and noticed that DynDOLOD disables itself inside interiors. So I thought it might lead to missing objects inside the savegame file because of that. But actually I cannot rememberthat I ever had this problem in my last playthrough, and just because I've just started a new game, I don't want it to be messed up some time later. better check for the reason now.

 

Thanks by the way for this great tool and mod!! Never want to play without it!

Why worry about something if there is no problem?

 

Save files contain a list of scripts that are attached to forms, regardless if that script on a particular form has been executed yet or not. There is no need to do a clean save unless you are replacing the DynDOLOD plugins with a newer version. 

 

As long as a script pex file is in the load order it will probably be listed in the existing save, since there is no uninstall function in papyrus. If it can be removed at all.

 

Data does not go missing from saves by itself. Data for a plugin is only removed when loading/saving without that plugin or if people mess up their save files with tools.

[Godis]

Why worry about something if there is no problem?

 

Save files contain a list of scripts that are attached to forms, regardless if that script on a particular form has been executed yet or not. There is no need to do a clean save unless you are replacing the DynDOLOD plugins with a newer version. 

 

As long as a script pex file is in the load order it will probably be listed in the existing save, since there is no uninstall function in papyrus. If it can be removed at all.

 

Data does not go missing from saves by itself. Data for a plugin is only removed when loading/saving without that plugin or if people mess up their save files with tools.

Thx, you're fast! :)  Yes, I am aware of that. I think I didn't explained it well. Anyways, it's working now. I've started a new game with the updated DynDOLOD and now there are no missing object errors appearing anymore in my savefile now.

[Godis]

Hey Sheson, I'm sorry to bother you again. But I'm sure this isn't normal. I've checked my savegame file again, and it's back. Also the amaount of "Missing objects" has increased. And it's always something that has to do with DynDOLOD. I use this verison for about two months now, and never had this kind of problem before. And I know very well how scripts are behaving in the save file. FallrimTools prompts with "36 unattached instances" when I load the last savegame file with it. When I apply the filter to show unattached instances, it displays 4 of the DynDOLOD scripts (beginning with "SHESON_") and a growing number of missing objects without further information. It only can be backtracked to DynDOLOD. Do you think it could help to rebuild it and empty the DynDOLOD cache before? And should before I never disabled all mods when building DynDOLOD. This time I did... and I came to this problem. Don't know if it has something to do with it.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Godis

[Godis]

It is weird. That mentioned savegame file was taken inside WIndhelm. I checked the MCM to find DynDOLOD being disabled (I guess due to "interior" worldpace where it's just not needed, so it disables itself, that's right?). I went outside Windhelm, waited a few minutes, walked around and then checked MCM again and DynDOLOD of course was enabled then. Well, I save the game, and loaded that save up into FallrimTools, and well: Only 7 unattached instances now. See the image (The filter here is set to "Show unattached instances":

 

 

 

Ok, now when I mark one of them, you can see in the right pane, that's actually not referring to anywhere:

 

 

 

 

As I said, I am using the same DynDOLOD version for a few weeks now, and this problem came up after I started a new game. Do you know what it could be? Thank you

 

Edit: Just to clarify: I didn't clean anything in that save this time (also not before.) I started a new game again, just to check if it still happens. Also I didn't remove any mods, nor I added any. I will now build DynDOLOD again from scratch and see how it goes... But if you have any clue, what's going on, please let me know.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Godis

[sheson]

Hey Sheson, I'm sorry to bother you again. But I'm sure this isn't normal. I've checked my savegame file again, and it's back. Also the amaount of "Missing objects" has increased. And it's always something that has to do with DynDOLOD. I use this verison for about two months now, and never had this kind of problem before. And I know very well how scripts are behaving in the save file. FallrimTools prompts with "36 unattached instances" when I load the last savegame file with it. When I apply the filter to show unattached instances, it displays 4 of the DynDOLOD scripts (beginning with "SHESON_") and a growing number of missing objects without further information. It only can be backtracked to DynDOLOD. Do you think it could help to rebuild it and empty the DynDOLOD cache before? And should before I never disabled all mods when building DynDOLOD. This time I did... and I came to this problem. Don't know if it has something to do with it.

AFAIK an unattached script instance can only happen if a plugin was removed between saves. I am not sure what Missing objects are supposed to be, but I suppose they have their cause in a removed plugin or a form id that does not exist in a plugin anymore, but only in the save.

 

Without a single other report it stands to reason this is either normal behavior for Skyrim SE or it is caused by something else. Just a hunch, the only reason you see a connection with DynDOLOD is most likely because it is more or less the last plugin in the load order, maybe even higher than the allowed 253?

 

Rebuilding or emptying the DynDOLOD cache will do nothing. It will just create the same data and plugins with different form ids. If nothing else jumps out, maybe try loading and saving the plugins in CK64.

Edited February 27, 2018 by sheson

[Godis]

Ok, I will try that if necessary after further tests. And nope, I didn't remove anything. Also I am using exactly 255 plugins, that's the maximum allowed amount. DynDOLOD tells 254 as well, but I'm pretty sure there are 255 allowed. Is that's a possible reason? Also I don't use merged plugins, except a few small patches merged into the bashed patch.

 

Edit: And a missing object in the save file refers to an object (whether that's a script or something defined by these) that cannot be found (so the script that defined it cannot be found or vise versa). So yes, it's usually exactly what you said, must be from a removed mod/content/whatever. But I didn't remove anything, that's the weird thing here..

Edited February 27, 2018 by Godis

[Godis]

It seems that it was related to that I followed the hint to disable unecessary plugins for the creation of DynDOLOD. Now I didn't do that - as I always didn't before - and it seems that there are no more unattached instances in my save file. Fingers crossed it stays like that..

There must be something in my load order that affected DynDOLOD not only "visually" (objects popping due to mods that were not taken into DynDOLOD creation) but also in another way... I just cannot figure what was that. Because I tripple checked to only disable mods that really don't add anything to the world space... However, hope it's fixed now. Thx for the help.

[sheson]

Ok, I will try that if necessary after further tests. And nope, I didn't remove anything. Also I am using exactly 255 plugins, that's the maximum allowed amount. DynDOLOD tells 254 as well, but I'm pretty sure there are 255 allowed. Is that's a possible reason? Also I don't use merged plugins, except a few small patches merged into the bashed patch.

 

Edit: And a missing object in the save file refers to an object (whether that's a script or something defined by these) that cannot be found (so the script that defined it cannot be found or vise versa). So yes, it's usually exactly what you said, must be from a removed mod/content/whatever. But I didn't remove anything, that's the weird thing here..

Skyrim SE can have 253 active plugins in the game. 254 / FE is reserved for CC and 255 / FF for temporary objects.

 

xEdit and consequently DynDOLOD support loading of 255 plugins, but count CC plugins differently though, as each CC plugin counts like it uses a full slot.

 

To test that there is enough room when generating, load entire load order into a recent version of xEdit first and make sure that there are no more than 253 plugins loaded, so there is room for DynDOLOD.esm and DynDOLOD.esp to be created at 254 and 255 in the worst case scenario. In the game the last plugin should not be higher than 253.

Edited February 27, 2018 by sheson

[Godis]

Oh, well. I didn't know that. Now I don't have any problem anymore.. But if you say so, I should probably get rid of s or 3 plugins.. Thx

 

Edit: Oh, I created Dyndolod while I left 253 plugins enabled because it would otherwise exit out with error. So could I get into trouble by using 255 plugins? There are no ESL plugins in my game.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Godis

[sheson]

Oh, well. I didn't know that. Now I don't have any problem anymore.. But if you say so, I should probably get rid of s or 3 plugins.. Thx

 

Edit: Oh, I created Dyndolod while I left 253 plugins enabled because it would otherwise exit out with error. So could I get into trouble by using 255 plugins? There are no ESL plugins in my game.

There should not be a plugin at 255 / FF in the game. I am not sure if Skyrm SE behaves "normal" with position 254 / FE and no CC present. Until some good testing is done, it is probably best to not use it either. 

[alt3rn1ty]

255 / FF is the slot reserved by the game for the in use save file to be loaded

(Oblivion / Fallout 3 / Fallout NV / Skyrim / Fallout 4 / Skyrim SE) 

 

254 / FE (for Oblivion / Fallout 3 / Fallout NV / Skyrim) is just a normal plugin slot

 

254 / FE (for Skyrim SE / Fallout 4) is reserved for loading all the new cc esl mods in the same slot (even though as esl's they will be listed just after esm's in your load order, they dont count as taking up a slot there)

 

 

So for Oblivion / Fallout 3 / Fallout NV / Skyrim, you have the use of slots 0-254 (0 counts as the first slot so you have 255 slots to play with, but deduct from that the games own plugins, leaves you with how many slots you can use for mods plugins and a bashed patch etc)

 

For Skyrim SE and Fallout 4 you have 0-253 = 254 slots to play with, and again deduct the games own plugins

[Godis]

There should not be a plugin at 255 / FF in the game. I am not sure if Skyrm SE behaves "normal" with position 254 / FE and no CC present. Until some good testing is done, it is probably best to not use it either. 

Ok, that's good to know! Regarding "some good testing": I finished my last playthrough with mostly 255 plugins filled without issues.. But just to be safe Iam now using 253 ;) And also my issue with the scripts in save file is finally gone! I have rebuilt DynDOLOD with my whole load order enabled, made clean save and reinstalled it. Now it'S working properly! I am just not sure if it was related to me using 255 plugins - or because I didn't build DynDOLOD with all mods enabled.. But as it'S working finally I don't want to reproduce the issue again, at least for now. xD

Edited February 28, 2018 by Godis

[sm0kem]

Ok, that's good to know! Regarding "some good testing": I finished my last playthrough with mostly 255 plugins filled without issues.. But just to be safe Iam now using 253 ;) And also my issue with the scripts in save file is finally gone! I have rebuilt DynDOLOD with my whole load order enabled, made clean save and reinstalled it. Now it'S working properly! I am just not sure if it was related to me using 255 plugins - or because I didn't build DynDOLOD with all mods enabled.. But as it'S working finally I don't want to reproduce the issue again, at least for now. xD

I've always followed the rule of disabling everything that isn't related to lod generation (i.e. Leaving only new lands, major texture/model overhauls, major quest ovehauls, trees/billboards, mods that add new structures/objects to the world).

Now by reading above discussion, i am wondering, what approach do you recommend Sheson: disabling unrelated or keeping full load order when running dyndolod? Also, what's your take on cleaning/sorting masters on dyndolod esm/esp if full load was used in generation?

Edited March 6, 2018 by sm0kem

[sheson]

I've always followed the rule of disabling everything that isn't related to lod generation (i.e. Leaving only new lands, major texture/model overhauls, major quest ovehauls, trees/billboards, mods that add new structures/objects to the world).

Now by reading above discussion, i am wondering, what approach do you recommend Sheson: disabling unrelated or keeping full load order when running dyndolod? Also, what's your take on cleaning/sorting masters on dyndolod esm/esp if full load was used in generation?

Generally speaking for the main population, it is best to have all plugins active when generating LOD, because then there is no need to worry about overwrite orders for plugins / records.

 

However, for the enthusiast modders I wrote this tip in the manual: If the load order changes often, consider generating LOD only for the base install of Skyrim Legendary and only the mods which are considered essential.

 

LOOT should hopefully be sorting the DynDOLOD plugin to load as early as possible, making sure DynDOLOD is not overwriting records in plugins that were absent with "wrong" data.

 

Enthusiast modders typically double check the result and plugins in xEdit to make the correct decision on a case per case basis.

 

All plugins should be cleaned and free of errors. If a plugin causes errors when generating LOD, it means the plugin needs to be fixed as explained in the FAQ.

Edited March 6, 2018 by sheson