F&L TTW Convergence Feedback

[EssArrBee]

This is the feedback and suggestion thread for trying to converge a TTW installation with F&L. The preliminary support for this will start this summer. Probably sometime after STEP 2.2.9 is released, that has to get done in the next few weeks for sure.
 
Name suggestions, my working name will be Tale of Fear and Loathing (ToF&L). Come up with one on your own, does not have to have Fear and Loathing or Tale of Two Wasteland in the title.
 
Feedback should include:

• Mod Incompatibilities:
  • ​Mods that cannot be used with ToF&L.
  • Mods in F&L that conflict with F3 mods that might gets used.
• Mod Conversions:
  • ​Mods that have TTW versions that people need to know about.
    • ​Nevada Skies
    • Delay DLC
    • WotNM (CaliberX has compatible replacer plugins for this mod too)
    • TTW Interiors Project (NVInteriors Project and F3 Interiors Project combined)
  • Mods that can be converted easily with a little FNVEdit or GECK work.
    • ​SRB will can contact authors and take care of releasing the files if you don't want to.
    • If you don't know how to convert mods then tell SRB and maybe he can do it.
  • Mods that have a F3 version that can be installed along side the FNV version.
    • ​NMCs and Vurts are examples of this, though Vurts may have a conversion.
• Plugin Limits:
  • ​140 is the number you cannot use. It is a soft cap, but try to use more and see how unstable the game gets.
  • Suggest mods that can be removed without a major impact to save a spot.
  • Suggest mods that would be good candidates for mergeing to save spots.

That covers most of the stuff that should take place in this thread. I can edit the OP to keep lists of mods and suggestions people should read. People can edit the OP as well, just keep my format and colors, purdy colors.

[redirishlord]

Here's the Tale of Two Wastelands forum to get y'all started, if you don't have the patience to feed the name to the googlemonster.

 

Notable patches hosted there;

 

TTW Alpha Download v2.6.3a link to the current release.

 

Official Bugfix Pack for TTW forum - download link

"For all of you who wished YUP was compatible wih TTW, or uFO3P was compatible with TTW... now they are. This mod consists of the best bugfixes for both games, lovingly primed up to work properly with TTW."

 

DarNifiedUI TTW Edition forum - download link

"Now fully compatible with oHud (senior moment over), except the brackets don't show up for some reason which will be investagated in the next development stage." Install instructions.

 

Nevada Skies latest version (already in F&L) has a TTW.esp in the main file, swap it for the FNV.esp by hiding the other under "optional files" in MO.

 

TTW Streetlights Fixed forum - download link

Requires Fallout Streetlights v2 for FO3 & Simple Streetlights Extra for FNV if you're into the whole uniformity thing.

If you prefer the F&L approved ElectroCity, download the original files linked above and replace the esm with this or this, they do the same thing.

 

Project Nevada TTW Patch forum - download link

"Provides compatibility between Project Nevada's features and Tale of Two Wastelands by:

- Removing duplicate weapons, ammo, and armor along with adding PN's chargeable weapon feature to select Fallout 3 weapons.- Adding enhanced vision modes and visor vision to appropiate headwear.- Allowing certain FO3 characters to perform cybernetic surgery and the ability to find PN's implants in the Capital Wasteland.- Rebalancing food and drink to comply with TTW's standards and PN's. (WIP)"

 

So that's just a start, I'll edit in more from that thread later tonight. Hopefully I'll have some empirical results & accompanying suggestions this weekend.

Edited June 26, 2014 by redirishlord

[redirishlord]

Looks like Vurt's Flora Overhaul: Forested FO3 / Fertile FNV and EVE compatiblity is going to be a bit of a project.

 

Posted by AndroidOS in the TTW Vurts Flora Overhaul Forum;

"I also wanted to get the forested overhaul working with TTW EVE, so I followed chucksteel's instructions on converting a mod, and your's for cleaning up DC Flora Overhaul. Thanks guys, it worked. I've attached my converted and cleaned esp to this post for anyone that's interested. It's just the DC flora overhaul. I've walked around for about half an hour and haven't seen any problems, as far as I can tell. I'm no master though, so there's probably going to be small issues left that I didn't notice.

To get it to work, follow TJ's instructions on the first page for purging cell buffers and waiting in an interior location, then save your game and exit.  Download Flora Overhaul forested edition from the FO3 Nexus, install it through FOMM and replace the esp with mine. Next, you want to delete the LOD files in the meshes folder (go to your NV data folder and search for lod, it should be the one called LOD under meshes. To be extra safe, download TJ's loose files and do a comparison in your data folder.) Open up FOMM and toggle archive invalidation.

Now we're going to download delta's LOD (link in OP) and install it into your NV data folder. Load your save and do another PCB/wait for cell respawn, toggle AI. Now, you should have TTW EVE and forested flora overhaul working properly together!

Thanks to TJ, Drain-O, Delta, and Chucksteel for the guide!"

 

* post is a work in progress, I'm still cobbling it together from forum conversations, more to come, will edit.

Edited June 26, 2014 by redirishlord

[EssArrBee]

There's a cool little guide to cleaning up duplicate textures for NMCs and the vanilla BSAs of the games, by Roy Batty. Roy is a member here and did the 4gb Loader I recommend in the guide. https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/nmcs-texture-packs-cleanup-and-combine

[redirishlord]

There's a cool little guide to cleaning up duplicate textures for NMCs and the vanilla BSAs of the games, by Roy Batty. Roy is a member here and did the 4gb Loader I recommend in the guide. https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/nmcs-texture-packs-cleanup-and-combine

Outstanding, quick question: it seems that there are four choices for FO3 & three choices for FNV ... I'm having trouble matching the medium FNV with the correct FO3 file, do you think the Large (2k with 1k normals) is the matching file?

[EssArrBee]

Outstanding, quick question: it seems that there are four choices for FO3 & three choices for FNV ... I'm having trouble matching the medium FNV with the correct FO3 file, do you think the Large (2k with 1k normals) is the matching file?

Yeah the Large should work and if you see bad performance just use the performance version. It seems like a mix. 

[EssArrBee]

I'm just looking over the stuff for FO3 to see what it would take to do a F&L CW edition and man that would be a crapshoot. I think a F&L TTW convergence will actually be easier though.

 

One tip, you could install a separate instance of the MO for FO3 and download the FO3 mods like NMCs. Then just move everything over to the FNV downloads folder and query info if you really care that much.

[redirishlord]

There's a cool little guide to cleaning up duplicate textures for NMCs and the vanilla BSAs of the games, by Roy Batty. Roy is a member here and did the 4gb Loader I recommend in the guide. https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/nmcs-texture-packs-cleanup-and-combine

Well, that was a breeze. The scripts make & step by step make it Red-proof, good stuff.

 

F&L Capital Wasteland seems unnecessary to me, who wouldn't want FO3 running on the FNV engine? It would be like playing something other than the FNV Ultimate or TES5 Legendary, why ... before anyone says it my answer is Steam Sale (a wise Incompatibilism Manager tipped me off to a $5 FO3 deal, no kidding).

 

Anyway, I'm planning to setup both F&L+ (maximized Mojave goodness) & ToF&L (everything compatible that's fit to cram[TM] in there) profiles, and then clone them for separate characters &/or mod testing.

[Omolong]

DarNifiedUI TTW Edition forum - download link

"Now fully compatible with oHud (senior moment over), except the brackets don't show up for some reason which will be investagated in the next development stage." Install instructions.

 

TTW Streetlights Fixed forum - download link

Requires Fallout Streetlights v2 for FO3 & Simple Streetlights Extra for FNV if you're into the whole uniformity thing.

If you prefer the F&L approved ElectroCity, download the original files linked above and replace the esm with this or this, they do the same thing.

 

Project Nevada TTW Patch forum - download link

"Provides compatibility between Project Nevada's features and Tale of Two Wastelands by:

- Removing duplicate weapons, ammo, and armor along with adding PN's chargeable weapon feature to select Fallout 3 weapons.- Adding enhanced vision modes and visor vision to appropiate headwear.- Allowing certain FO3 characters to perform cybernetic surgery and the ability to find PN's implants in the Capital Wasteland.- Rebalancing food and drink to comply with TTW's standards and PN's. (WIP)"

The TTW version of Darnified UI just brings back how customizable the Fallout 3 version was, it's not actually a special TTW specific version. I think most of the functionality in it is done by One HUD now anyway.

 

I personally never liked all of the stuff that ELECTRO-CITY adds anyway, so that streetlights mod seems nice.

 

The Project Nevada patch is pretty awful. The guy that made it straight up deleted items, rather than just replacing them with Fallout 3 equivalents, which I'm pretty sure will cause problems. And there's a fair chunk of items missing. There is a patch for WMX and TTW on their forums too, but I dunno where it is right now. It's got a number of incompatibilities, though (and a few errors and inconsistencies I think), and it only covers doesn't cover some DLC items, the reskinned Anchorage one. It doesn't work with the Project Nevada patch without a custom patch, anyway. I do think it might be better to either make a patch for TTW/Project Nevada/WMX and then upload that for general use, or make a patch specific for this guide that the same stuff, but also adds in compatibility for the other mods we have (of course if we ever get anything like the STEP patches for this, then that would be pretty unnecessary).

 

Looks like Vurt's Flora Overhaul: Forested FO3 / Fertile FNV and EVE compatiblity is going to be a bit of a project.

 

Posted by AndroidOS in the TTW Vurts Flora Overhaul Forum;

"I also wanted to get the forested overhaul working with TTW EVE, so I followed chucksteel's instructions on converting a mod, and your's for cleaning up DC Flora Overhaul. Thanks guys, it worked. I've attached my converted and cleaned esp to this post for anyone that's interested. It's just the DC flora overhaul. I've walked around for about half an hour and haven't seen any problems, as far as I can tell. I'm no master though, so there's probably going to be small issues left that I didn't notice.

To get it to work, follow TJ's instructions on the first page for purging cell buffers and waiting in an interior location, then save your game and exit.  Download Flora Overhaul forested edition from the FO3 Nexus, install it through FOMM and replace the esp with mine. Next, you want to delete the LOD files in the meshes folder (go to your NV data folder and search for lod, it should be the one called LOD under meshes. To be extra safe, download TJ's loose files and do a comparison in your data folder.) Open up FOMM and toggle archive invalidation.

Now we're going to download delta's LOD (link in OP) and install it into your NV data folder. Load your save and do another PCB/wait for cell respawn, toggle AI. Now, you should have TTW EVE and forested flora overhaul working properly together!

Thanks to TJ, Drain-O, Delta, and Chucksteel for the guide!"

Yeah, it does seem that Flora Overhaul is going to be problematic. If this was to become a thing, I think we'd need to decide on the versions to use for this, and then supply a download to the correct LOD meshes (that someone will need to supply, those this doesn't take long).

 

In regards to existing mods, I've got a few suggestions.

 

I personally feel like the quest mods can be dropped, as we'll have a game of quests to do, plus it'll save some plugin slots.

 

Advanded Recon Trap Detection requires a small patch, but I've got that set up on my side. Same with Selective Fire, I've got a patch that works for Project Nevada and TTW. I've got a TTW converted version of Laurens Bathroom Poetry set up too, if that's wanted.

 

Hall of Equipment has a Fallout 3 version that came be used without issue, as does Type 3 (if you delete the plugins and install it before the New Vegas mods along with a few extra textures) and Roberts (though I personally use Breeze because I don't like the body textures on Roberts, or how mangled the shoulders can look. And I don't like how the first person hands are different). There's aMidianBorn/Bornagain textures that will need installing before Book of Steel as well, due to stuff like the Outcast Armour and the Combat Armour not in New Vegas. There's an EVE patch for TTW too, so that's fine. Ragdoll Replacer and Improved Sound FX seem to work fine if they're installed before the New Vegas versions too.

 

Interior Lighting Overhaul doesn't seem to have a proper TTW equivalent, so I never included that for consistency. On the other side, there is a proper TTWInteriors mod, but I honestly really disliked how much inconsistent junk that added, so I just removed it from my game. I never included Willow either, mostly due to wanting to save a plugin slot and not really liking companions.

 

There are a few bugs in some of the new TTW armours, though that might be due to Book of Steel. Never been sure on that, but I've made a fix for it anyway which I can supply. On top of that HD One Hand Melee has a problem with Anchorage, as the Trench Knife has a badly aligned texture, so that might need to be removed (I never liked how it and the Fire Axe retexture didn't work well with WMX anyway). I'm pretty sure that RFO works fine with TTW, but there might be a few inconsistencies in textures (I found some of these textures pretty bleh to look at though, like the Incinerator).

 

In regards to mods being added:

 

I'd personally add in a loading wheel change to make it more fitting for Fallout 3 (I found the actual Fallout 3 one is nice), but that's a personal choice. Same with mods that allow to level up past level lock of 50, due to having another game.

 

I'd add in this, as I am pretty sure that the game is going to become a lot more unstable, and that helps to avoid it.

 

There are a few Fallout 3 mods that do similar things to Collision Mesh Overhaul, and I can give links on those if they're needed.

 

I like to add in GNR Enhanced too, it's nice to have a longer track list. Same with Mr New Vegas' Secret Stash, but that's not on the Nexus any more.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Omolong

[redirishlord]

The TTW version of Darnified UI just brings back how customizable the Fallout 3 version was, it's not actually a special TTW specific version. I think most of the functionality in it is done by One HUD now anyway.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing this in action.

 

I personally never liked all of the stuff that ELECTRO-CITY adds anyway, so that streetlights mod seems nice.

 

The Project Nevada patch is pretty awful. The guy that made it straight up deleted items, rather than just replacing them with Fallout 3 equivalents, which I'm pretty sure will cause problems. And there's a fair chunk of items missing. There is a patch for WMX and TTW on their forums too, but I dunno where it is right now. It's got a number of incompatibilities, though (and a few errors and inconsistencies I think), and it only covers doesn't cover some DLC items, the reskinned Anchorage one. It doesn't work with the Project Nevada patch without a custom patch, anyway. I do think it might be better to either make a patch for TTW/Project Nevada/WMX and then upload that for general use, or make a patch specific for this guide that the same stuff, but also adds in compatibility for the other mods we have (of course if we ever get anything like the STEP patches for this, then that would be pretty unnecessary).

 

Thanks for the warning, maybe I should wait for a guide specific patch (or learn to make one myself).

 

Yeah, it does seem that Flora Overhaul is going to be problematic. If this was to become a thing, I think we'd need to decide on the versions to use for this, and then supply a download to the correct LOD meshes (that someone will need to supply, those this doesn't take long).

 

I stopped midway on that bit of research, need to re-visit & see if someone finally got it sorted.

 

In regards to existing mods, I've got a few suggestions.

 

I personally feel like the quest mods can be dropped, as we'll have a game of quests to do, plus it'll save some plugin slots.

 

Definitely makes sense, but the few included sound well done, difficult choices.

 

Advanded Recon Trap Detection requires a small patch, but I've got that set up on my side. Same with Selective Fire, I've got a patch that works for Project Nevada and TTW. I've got a TTW converted version of Laurens Bathroom Poetry set up too, if that's wanted.

 

Those would be great have!

 

Hall of Equipment has a Fallout 3 version that came be used without issue, as does Type 3 (if you delete the plugins and install it before the New Vegas mods along with a few extra textures) and Roberts (though I personally use Breeze because I don't like the body textures on Roberts, or how mangled the shoulders can look. And I don't like how the first person hands are different). There's aMidianBorn/Bornagain textures that will need installing before Book of Steel as well, due to stuff like the Outcast Armour and the Combat Armour not in New Vegas. There's an EVE patch for TTW too, so that's fine. Ragdoll Replacer and Improved Sound FX seem to work fine if they're installed before the New Vegas versions too.

 

Good info there, I've got some downloading to do. Re- EVE Patch, when I try to load the forum thread it has a problem loading, so I haven't been able to download that.

 

Interior Lighting Overhaul doesn't seem to have a proper TTW equivalent, so I never included that for consistency. On the other side, there is a proper TTWInteriors mod, but I honestly really disliked how much inconsistent junk that added, so I just removed it from my game. I never included Willow either, mostly due to wanting to save a plugin slot and not really liking companions.

 

I don't mind the Mojave having an advantage in electrical tech, they seem to be blessed with energy resources (dam & solar power plant), might go with Electro & ILO unless I have to get cutthroat with plugins.

 

There are a few bugs in some of the new TTW armours, though that might be due to Book of Steel. Never been sure on that, but I've made a fix for it anyway which I can supply. On top of that HD One Hand Melee has a problem with Anchorage, as the Trench Knife has a badly aligned texture, so that might need to be removed (I never liked how it and the Fire Axe retexture didn't work well with WMX anyway). I'm pretty sure that RFO works fine with TTW, but there might be a few inconsistencies in textures (I found some of these textures pretty bleh to look at though, like the Incinerator).

 

In regards to mods being added:

 

I'd personally add in a loading wheel change to make it more fitting for Fallout 3 (I found the actual Fallout 3 one is nice), but that's a personal choice. Same with mods that allow to level up past level lock of 50, due to having another game.

 

I'd add in this, as I am pretty sure that the game is going to become a lot more unstable, and that helps to avoid it.

 

There are a few Fallout 3 mods that do similar things to Collision Mesh Overhaul, and I can give links on those if they're needed.

 

I like to add in GNR Enhanced too, it's nice to have a longer track list. Same with Mr New Vegas' Secret Stash, but that's not on the Nexus any more.

[Omolong]

Sorry for how late this is, I haven't really paid much attention to this stuff.

 

Anyway, here's my two patches I mentioned. Should have no issues, the Trap Detection one is just a formlist to add the Fallout 3 items, and the Selective Fire one just edits a quest to change it so that it gets started on the Fallout 3 chargen quests rather than the New Vegas ones. I haven't included my Laurens Bathroom Poetry one, but that isn't hard to convert using the stuff on the TTW forums. I'll see what I can do about getting permission to release it anyway.

 

I've found another problem with the WMX/TTW patch as well. It refuses to work with the Vault 22 Flora Overhaul. No clue why, but the game refuses to start up if you have those two enabled. Even with the minimum of all the official New Vegas files, all the main TTW files, the main WMX ESP, and those two mods, it just doesn't start. It's really weird.

[EssArrBee]

Sorry for how late this is, I haven't really paid much attention to this stuff.

 

Anyway, here's my two patches I mentioned. Should have no issues, the Trap Detection one is just a formlist to add the Fallout 3 items, and the Selective Fire one just edits a quest to change it so that it gets started on the Fallout 3 chargen quests rather than the New Vegas ones. I haven't included my Laurens Bathroom Poetry one, but that isn't hard to convert using the stuff on the TTW forums. I'll see what I can do about getting permission to release it anyway.

 

I've found another problem with the WMX/TTW patch as well. It refuses to work with the Vault 22 Flora Overhaul. No clue why, but the game refuses to start up if you have those two enabled. Even with the minimum of all the official New Vegas files, all the main TTW files, the main WMX ESP, and those two mods, it just doesn't start. It's really weird.

Did you extract the Vault 22 BSA? 

[Omolong]

Did you extract the Vault 22 BSA? 

Oh, yeah, that would explain it. It turns out there was a BSA for the WMX/TTW mod that I thought I had removed a while ago. Removing that fixed it. The new NVAC thing probably helps with this too.

[EssArrBee]

NVAC's new thing is for the INI lines, but in the future it may help with many many many BSAs loaded by plugins.

[hishutup]

So is TTW usable with your guide or no. Is TTW incomplete or complete because if I could add TTW along with the patches above and have 2 very complete modded games in one then I'd enjoy that. Since there hasn't been a single comment in a month I'm going with that its too much work and too problematic.