A Comparison of Water Mods

[TechAngel85]

We're not officially comparing these mod so I'm posting here. I've always wanted to see a direct, live comparison between W.A.T.E.R and Pure Waters but I could never find one, so....I did one myself! :D I put this together in about a day's total worth of work and it was my first time using Adobe Premiere Elements so if anything is off, please forgive. :confused: The video is available in HD on YouTube.

 

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[video=youtube]

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d5pou2r3gqbs84e/Water%20Mod%20Comp%20Update.mp4

Download from Dropbox for best quality.

[torminater]

Gopher has done a great comparison on pure waters and WATER in his pure waters Skyrim mod sanctuary.

I like both a lot and have played with both a lot. I can't really say which mod wins it out though.

[TechAngel85]

I seen Gopher's but it was quick and didn't really do it for me. That video of his was more explaining why he uses Pure Waters and taking about it rather than a visual comparison of the two mods. I had about 5-6 more comparisons, but decided to slim it down due to thinking people wouldn't sit around to watch a 9-10 min video. :) I'm of the opinion, after seeing them both in action, that a mesh of the two would be the perfect solution. In some situation WATER is the best and in others Pure Waters wins out for me.

[Eliian]

I agree. No clear out winner between the two for me either. My only problem is that certain places with Pure Waters are a little to clear for my tastes.

[PopReference]

I agree. No clear out winner between the two for me either. My only problem is that certain places with Pure Waters are a little to clear for my tastes.

 

In a recent update Laast fixed that, by popular demand:

"Update 4 (March 2013): Slightly less transparent water in some areas (requested by many users)."

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Everybody has their preferences; myself, I like Pure. What should also be considered is the Scale of effect the mod has, because WATER changes more then just the water textures now, so is that good or bad for STEP?

[torminater]

OK, I've picked my faves:

1. Pure Waters

2. WATER

3. Pure Waters

4. Pure Waters

5. Vanilla/Pure Waters/WATER <- look the exact same?

6. Vanilla/Pure Waters/WATER <- look the exact same?

7. WATER/Pure Waters

8. WATER/Pure Waters

9. WATER

[rootsrat]

I chose WATER purely to the fact that it amend the flow direction, which makes a huge difference to me. It also makes waterfalls more visually believable I think.

[TechAngel85]

Pure Waters has to amend some flow directions too. Case in point is the 4th compare in the video, and it's the reason I included it. In this scene there is a waterfall behind me and the river in front. The flow direction should be from my back to my front; however, you'll notice that it is from side to side (shore to shore) in both vanilla and in WATER. It's completely unrealistic because water doesn't flow like that in a river. Pure Water corrected this by changing the flow direction in this area to be more realistic. So there is proof that Pure Waters does amend some flow directions.

 

Here are my winners:

1. Pure Waters

2. Pure Waters (feels more realistic around this dock. The other too are flowing too fast for such an inlet.)

3. Pure Waters

4. Pure Waters

5. Water (only real difference here are the ripples from the geysers)

6. Pure Waters (very smooth surface)

7. WATER/Pure Water (can't decide)

8. Pure Water (notice the shore line fixes here from WATER and PW over vanilla)

9. Pure Water (notice the rocks in front of the second waterfall. You can see to the bottom with PW. This is realist because the water is only hip to chest deep)

 

When it comes down to it, I like certain parts of WATER and certain parts of PW. A meshing of the two would be perfect; however, taking in the overall scene and other criteria, PW wins for me. Personally, I like extra transparency because I find it realistic. The Skyrim environment is one that was before industrialization. Back in these times, the waters were often very clear and you had no issues seeing to the bottom of most rivers. You can still find many place like that here in Oklahoma. I can recall a summer camp one year in my youth with a river that you could go kayaking on. The water in this river was like glass. You could see straight to the bottom where such clarity it was like the water wasn't even there; though, the water was nearly 12 feet deep!

 

I'm planning on doing another video within the next week with different locations around Skyrim and will post it here. I'll also be provide a more detailed analysis of both mods in regards to changes they make.

[torminater]

But in the rivers in Skyrim (fairly shallow, almost no vegetation) you usually have not that clear water since all the sand from the riverbeds gets washed up and disperses in the water, which makes it look more opaque.

[TechAngel85]

But in the rivers in Skyrim (fairly shallow' date=' almost no vegetation) you usually have not that clear water since all the sand from the riverbeds gets washed up and disperses in the water, which makes it look more opaque.[/quote']

I went back for a quick swim and most of these areas are accurate with the except of around Riverwood. As PopReference pointed out, many of these areas have been fixed and most of the ones that are still clear have rock textures at the bottom of the riverbed instead of dirt/sand (around Riverwood mill being one exception).

[PopReference]

But in the rivers in Skyrim (fairly shallow, almost no vegetation) you usually have not that clear water since all the sand from the riverbeds gets washed up and disperses in the water, which makes it look more opaque.

 

Your right but.

 

Water will get cloudy when the river bottom is disturbed. However dirt, sand and rocks will settle back to the bottom fairly quickly, more so in fast flowing rivers, leaving the water translucent enough to see the bottom clearly. I know some rivers are very cloudy all the time but I'm really not an expert on why some do and some don't.

 

Also, just had a thought about colour changes to rivers and water, just another thing to consider what looks better/more real.

[TechAngel85]

I've done a comparison in TESVedit, I'll post those results when I get home from work.

[TechAngel85]

Got busy with RL. Here's my TESVedit analysis of both mods:

 

TESVedit shows us that while WATER carries over most of the default values from vanilla, Pure Water does not. PW changes most of the vanilla values for fog, reflectivity, refraction, colors, and speculars. This is mainly to achieve its transparency effects and in an attempt to be more "pure". The one down side to these changes, is that it makes PW conflict with several weather and lighting mods. The result of these conflicts is that PW's transparency is negated...nothing major, but it's a big part of the mod. It is also not compatible with any mod that changes the fog (so the author says). There seems to be no conflicts with USKP for either mod (in what TESVedit shows) and I tested Pure Waters with the new version of Climates of Tamriel. CoT was notorious with messing up PW's transparency; however, I found no issues in multiply locations and in multiple weathers with PW's transparency with the new CoT v3.

 

Both mods are compatible with all DLCs and both include an optional rain ripple effect (as does CoT and all three are about the same in quality). In addition, Pure Water has optional textures to use for the texture around the river shores and beds which are pebble/rock textures that are of good quality.

 

Pure Water uses only 3 different textures for all the waters in Skyrim. These textures are for the default waters, for "calm" waters, and for "rough" waters. Here is the list where each is used:

 

 

Calm Waters:

Sleeping Tree Camp

Waist high flowing water areas

Ankle high still water areas

Waist high still water areas

Black Reach

Puddles

Lava waters (note that WATER does not cover this)

Murky waters

Markarth

Helgen

Deep woods waters

Riften

Shadowmere

Horse Toughs

Marshes

 

Rough Waters (storm):

All River waters

 

All other areas use the default water textures. PW also adds a new value for cold waters that uses the default as well.

 

 

 

Textures is where WATER shines. WATER provides 6 different textures used for different water areas in Skyrim. Here is the list where each texture is used:

 

 

Creek Waters (similar to PW's calm waters):

All creek waters

Sleeping Tree Camp

Waist high flowing water areas

Ankle high still water areas

Waist high still water areas

Murky waters

Helgen

Deep woods

Shadowmere

Marsh waters

 

Lake Waters:

Black Reach

Markarth

 

Ocean Waters:

Default waters (strangely WATER using the ocean texture as the default water texture when no other texture is assigned. Ocean is the equivalent to PW's rough waters. PW uses calm waters as it's default.)

Riften

Katariah World waters

 

River Waters:

All rivers

 

 

This information isn't all that important. I just wanted to provide it for the sake of completely covering the mods. I haven't learned the CK yet, so looking more in-depth at the changes the mods make (water direction flows, etc) is going to be impossible for me at the moment.

[z929669]

Nice evaluation, Tech!

 

I think that both PW and Water are definite improvements over vanilla, particularly with regard to water-land transitions.

 

I have to say though that PW is slightly more interesting and realistic to me in all cases, particularly the ocean. Snow-melt water in mountainous regions is very crisp and clear, and there is very little silt. Cloudiness should be more apparent in the lowlands and flatter regions (waters in The Rift are a good example).

 

How about some underwater and water-air transitions of each?

 

What about performance diffs?

[TechAngel85]

More compares, including underwater are on the way. I have FRAPS running during the captures and didn't notice any difference in performance between the two. I'll do a more through eval of the performance tho too. I have to say, I'll probably be switching to Pure Waters.