ACCEPTED Nemesis Unlimited Behavior Engine (by Shikyo Kira)

[CorneliusC]

And there are not that many mods and authors working with Nemesis going forward as far as i can see. For example the first three mods you mentioned above, by Everglaid, the first two use DAR, the third is an animation replacer without any dependencies ...

 

Edit: The most interesting route would be to not being dependent on neither FNIS nor Nemesis

Edited December 8, 2022 by CorneliusC

[Mousetick]

I removed Nemesis a while ago, never used FNIS, because I don't need them and avoid anything that requires them. I agree they're a hot mess and nothing but trouble. Terribad documentation and support. And they're not really needed for STEP, Ice Skating Fixed notwithstanding, which I don't care about for playing in 1st-person.

I use quite a few animation mods that depend on DAR, such as those Z linked previously.

DAR is not compatible with the latest Skyrim AE runtime, however, and it's uncertain whether it can/will be updated (closed-permissions, MA MIA). So it's not an option for STEP at this point.

[z929669]

1 hour ago, elenhil said:

Curious. I've seen it phrased almost completely the other way around on Nexusmods: who, apart from those interested in NSFW stuff (which is apparently not Nemesis compatible), would prefer FNIS over Nemesis?

Well the point about it not being maintained and my personal issues with Nemesis here and there make me wonder if it's viable in the long term. FNIS has been around for years and pretty much requires the same labor/setup as Nemesis, IIRC.

[DoubleYou]

All one needs to do is look at the Github to see it is not dead in the water. It is currently being rewritten from scratch, as noted by the author in May of this year, and I know from experience that takes a lot of time, especially for a hobbiest.

FNIS is completely dead in the water, however, and the author no longer has a Nexus account.

[z929669]

3 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

All one needs to do is look at the Github to see it is not dead in the water. It is currently being rewritten from scratch, as noted by the author in May of this year, and I know from experience that takes a lot of time, especially for a hobbiest.

FNIS is completely dead in the water, however, and the author no longer has a Nexus account.

Thanks for this. I hadn't looked at their Git in a while.

[duy123a]

You can use both FNIS and Nemesis, I have used them for a while and have no problem. FNIS will handle the creature animation and Nemesis will handle the rest. When running Nemesis, if they found FNIS animation files that it can't convert (creature animations), it will create a compatible FNIS esp to handle them. The only problem is XPMSE, this one will spam massive error logs if used with Nemesis. You can use XPMSE lite or just the meshes.

[z929669]

Yeah, once we are ready to look more at a more comprehensive animations solution, we'll need to revisit our XPMSE configuration (again). That's why we'll be waiting for a future update to look more closely at animations in the Step build.

[ButchDiavolo]

20 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

All one needs to do is look at the Github to see it is not dead in the water. It is currently being rewritten from scratch, as noted by the author in May of this year, and I know from experience that takes a lot of time, especially for a hobbiest.

FNIS is completely dead in the water, however, and the author no longer has a Nexus account.

I had looked at the GitHub, but saw no notices/ progress mentioned, which sparked my (perhaps too snarky?) comment on this. Maybe I didn't look hard enough. I did look at the Nexus comments/ bug reports, which was a rather shocking experience to be honest. However, if it is being rewritten, then we should of course wait for the update before deciding.

FNIS is indeed officially dead, but still functions as expected, except for mods specifically designed for Nemesis.

I have no experience with DAR at all, so I can't comment on how it handles/ implements animations. Since it has not been updated to the latest version, I can't test it out either.

For reference: The reason I brought this up, is my experiences with Nemesis and FNIS.

FNIS has always worked perfectly and is pretty simple to install and use.

I have tried Nemesis several times and each time it threw up so many issues that it was unusable for me. Finding documentation was extremely difficult and the Nemesis team was completely unresponsive. The reason for the issues could of course be my mod list or between-chair-and-pc malfunction. The sheer amount of bug reports and lack of official help didn't help either, so I gave up trying. I understand that others have a completely different experience with Nemesis, where it works right out of the box. I am just not one of them for whatever reason.

Since animation "handling" is kind of in the doldrums right now (FNIS not being worked on any more; DAR not updated yet; Nemesis being worked on), I guess having a discussion on it now would be pretty moot. So now we wait...

[DoubleYou]

It is indeed a waiting game. The author could very well lose interest and the rewrite never come to pass. There are, however, several hundred forks I see, so I believe there will be some progress by someone in the future, since it is GPL licensed. 

[duy123a]

14 hours ago, ButchDiavolo said:

I had looked at the GitHub, but saw no notices/ progress mentioned, which sparked my (perhaps too snarky?) comment on this. Maybe I didn't look hard enough. I did look at the Nexus comments/ bug reports, which was a rather shocking experience to be honest. However, if it is being rewritten, then we should of course wait for the update before deciding.

FNIS is indeed officially dead, but still functions as expected, except for mods specifically designed for Nemesis.

I have no experience with DAR at all, so I can't comment on how it handles/ implements animations. Since it has not been updated to the latest version, I can't test it out either.

For reference: The reason I brought this up, is my experiences with Nemesis and FNIS.

FNIS has always worked perfectly and is pretty simple to install and use.

I have tried Nemesis several times and each time it threw up so many issues that it was unusable for me. Finding documentation was extremely difficult and the Nemesis team was completely unresponsive. The reason for the issues could of course be my mod list or between-chair-and-pc malfunction. The sheer amount of bug reports and lack of official help didn't help either, so I gave up trying. I understand that others have a completely different experience with Nemesis, where it works right out of the box. I am just not one of them for whatever reason.

Since animation "handling" is kind of in the doldrums right now (FNIS not being worked on any more; DAR not updated yet; Nemesis being worked on), I guess having a discussion on it now would be pretty moot. So now we wait...

The current Nemesis on Nexus has a famous bug that will crash if your CPU is too strong, so you have to set it only uses 20% thread of CPU for it to work :))

[ButchDiavolo]

2 hours ago, duy123a said:

The current Nemesis on Nexus has a famous bug that will crash if your CPU is too strong, so you have to set it only uses 20% thread of CPU for it to work :))

Ah, that would explain a lot actually. I am not going to try Nemesis again now, but it would explain why I never got it to work. Thanks.

[duy123a]

47 minutes ago, ButchDiavolo said:

Ah, that would explain a lot actually. I am not going to try Nemesis again now, but it would explain why I never got it to work. Thanks.

You can read it more here. I used to have a same problem too.

[DoubleYou]

Strange. Z has a 3950x and hasn't had an issue, and the user there has a 3900x, which has fewer threads than Z's. I would guess this is probably only an issue if you have a huge amount (18,000!) of animations.

[z929669]

8 hours ago, duy123a said:

The current Nemesis on Nexus has a famous bug that will crash if your CPU is too strong, so you have to set it only uses 20% thread of CPU for it to work :))

This doesn't impact me, and my CPU is pretty up there. Maybe Intel CPUs

---

[duy123a]

5 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

Strange. Z has a 3950x and hasn't had an issue, and the user there has a 3900x, which has fewer threads than Z's. I would guess this is probably only an issue if you have a huge amount (18,000!) of animations.

Yeah maybe, I have around 16000 animations at that time and need to lower the thread of CPUs to work. My CPU is Ryzen 7 3750H Mobile.

Edited December 10, 2022 by duy123a