Can I create of fork in order to update the F&L Guide to 2021 modding standards?

[Majorman]

I've recently beaten Alduin and Miraak and found out that I don't like Skyrim enough to replay it with a different character or to do the Dawnguard DLC (I know, a big shock). So it came to my attention that while I was committing genocide against the dragonkin, FNV's modding community has evolved quite a lot. I had to see what it looks like. And now that I'm back to playing Fallout: New Vegas, I think I can find the time to update/modernize EssArrBee's Fear and Loathing guide. The issue is that I don't know if I am allowed to do so under this site's rules and since EssArrBee is not active anymore, I don't know fow I might ask for his consent. Can someone from the site's staff tell me whether I can (legally) update the current guide and how can I start? If such an option even exists, I would like to do it respectfully and give the original author all the respect and praise he deserves.

 

P.S. I don't have the time and/or eloquence to do a guide from the ground up, nor would I be able to do a job that comes even close to the current guide, especially when it comes to writing the technical sections (i.e. how to set up Mod Organizer, how to run FNV LODGen or Wrye bash). My only intention is to make the guide practically useful by today's standards.

P.P.S. I know that Viva New Vegas Exists and it has given me ideas on which mods from F&L need to be replaced by a better written ones. The issue I have with Viva New Vegas is that it promotes WMIM over WMX, NV Redesigned over FCO and is build around JSUE instead of PN (though it has an almost complete list on how to recreate PN with newly released mod content).

[z929669]

If you want to work on updating a Fallout guide, it would definitely be best to work on an official or unofficial guide using our guide framwork. EssArrBee's guide is pretty outdated and does not use the new framework. We could help you get the structure set up and the mod list based on his most recent one. What would need to happen is that guide's mods would need to be added to the wiki.

@EssArrBee's guide belongs to the site and the community, so you can legally edit it; although, it should probably be left alone to preserve it's original intent. We version guides for that reason. You could alternatively reproduce it into a new version of that same guide and update it, as you indicate by 'fork'. This is just as much work as using our framework though, and does not benefit the site or other guide creators like you, because data pertaining to mods hard-coded into user pages cannot be 'reused' in other guides without directly hard coding them into another page. This is both redundant and unhelpful to all.

Either way, it will be a lot of work, so it is for this reason why I advocate creating your own guide under the new framework using his guide as a reference. If you are willing, we can assist where needed (like the 'technical' instructions for modding tools, etc ... we have a reusable System Setup Guide that applies to all Bethesda RPGs for that purpose.

We need guide curators for Fallout games anyway. First step is to identify all of the mods you want to use and what mod groups they belong to so that they can be added to the wiki. Just copy the info from mods in SRB's current guide into new mod pages for FalloutNV namespace. See instructions for doing this work on the Step Portal. It helps to use two browser tabs: one for the reference guide, and the other to work on the mod pages for the new guide (in fact, I often have multiple tabs open for this work).

What is your timeline?

[TechAngel85]

I agree with Z. I was planning to eventually take F&L and make it into our "official" Guide using our framework (adding/cutting/changing to mind our Mandates); same for the FO3 guide. However, never really playing much of Fallout (not my cup of tea), it would be best to bring on some curators that are familiar with the series, like yourself, in an official compacity to be stewards of our official Guides for these games.

[z929669]

You can choose to either adhere to the Step mandate to create an official guide, or deviate from vanilla FNV to create an unofficial guide. Both use the guide framework and allow other guides in the framework to reuse mods. This benefits all of our wiki editors.

As an example, I just looked at SRB's guide and found 'NVSE', which had a bad link in his guide. I determined where it is being maintained by a quick Google search, and was able to add the mod page. Now this mod can be linked from any wiki page by simply using the following wiki markup and can also be listed in any FNV guide via the framework.

[[FalloutNV:NVSE|NVSE]]

 

[Majorman]

Thanks for the prompt replies. 

 

So, if I understood correctly, the recommended way to update the guide would be to:

1. Create a separate entry/mod page for each mod and utility I'll be using. Specific install instructions should be listed on this "mod page". 

2. Format the guide as a mod list that links to both the download page and the wiki page. 

Should I necessarily follow the 3-column table format? Drawing tables in PHP is inconvenient IMO. 

The requirement to split core from supplemental mods is not a big issue, I have a general idea on which is which. 

Regarding the modlist - I plan to basically upgrade SRB's current one, because those are already proven to work along nicely and are at the same time different from the ones provided in Viva New Vegas, so that will not be a carbon copy of the most cited modlist at the moment. I have gone through the "Mods to avoid section" of VNV and at least half a dozen of F&L's mods are there. Not because they are bad mods, mind you, but because xNVSE now allows to achieve these same effect with far less scripts. 

Timing will be flunky, as life always interferes with modding (and I have a wife and a child that require a lot of my time and attention), but if I manage to get the Script extenders, Stability and Fixes, UI and Weather mods done by the end of June, I will be happy. I had a plan on updating the P&L guide in phases, but if I am going for the STEP Mandate approach, I think I'll work section-by-section, following SRB's structure as reference to keep track of my progress. 

I'm sorry that this post got a bit lengthy, I'm a bit hyped now and life will probably catch up at some point to bite me in the leg and spoil my plans. 

TL; DR: I'm willing the "official" guide format a shot, even if I get nowhere, at least that way someone can take over more easily than if the guide is linked to my profile. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Majorman

[z929669]

Awesome. We need a FO-knowlegeable (and interested) party to do this, so it looks like a good thing from all sides if you are into upgradeing an FO guide.

There is no PHP that you will see. It's all handled by Semantic Mediawiki functions, forms, and templates. Just have a look at the Step Portal as mentioned, click through to the FalloutNV home page, and go to it's portal page for all you need to create the mod pages and the guide. We will step in to help as needed.

I will grant you the necessary edit perms to get started. You can edit most pages as a member, but using the guide infrastructure requires more.

[z929669]

Posts split off to new FalloutNV guide topic: