xLODGen - Terrain LOD beta 132 for FNV, FO3, FO4, FO4VR, TES5, SSE, TES5VR, ENDERAL, ENDERALSE

[sheson]

 

Hmm I don't know anymore :

 

1) - I did a specific chunk at 2k with your recommend settings and +2/+2 brightness/contrast => perfect LOD, no difference (using STEP mod list)

 

- then I did a full map 2k and the LOD was slightly different again (checked with the cell where I previously had a perfect LOD, and it had changed)

 

Then I noticed different LOD levels seems to be blended together as we move around, there is a sort of transition/blending effect, so I'm wondering if this has to do with the change I noticed?

 

2) For the snow, I generate LOD using nordic snow mod, then disable the mod and its just perfect. So that's one way to have terrain LOD and snow LOD matching finally.

 

3) I got the "perfect" LOD using the STEP build, which seems to have specific ground texture which is better suited. I tried my settings for Vanilla and Cathedral Landscapes at 4k LOD4, and there is still a difference due to how the texture details/tiling are made in those mods.

 

So I guess one easy way to eradicate texture difference is also to use a landscape textures that have somewhat not too defined groundcovers to begin with. 

 

Even with Vanilla and Cathedral, the LODs were still way better than anything I've seen on the nexus so far, so that would be indeed a great step up for those using those mods, but still I'm baffled by 1) and the problem is 2K full map takes a long time to render so it's difficult to further test this.

 

Thank you, I'm going to generate some more and see if I can refine.

Thank you I found out about "Where in Oblivion Am i" mod in the meantime and it did the trick for cells coordinate.

 

What you say about circular fading could be the issue I ran into when fully rendering 2K. There is a way cell and LODs blend that seem to mess up with my "specific chunk" setup.

 

EDIT : Could be that I fully rendered 2K on LOD4 only and 512 for LOD8/16, therefore the resolution change is a bit too big and the blending messes up the LOD4 too badly...? I'll try 2k/1k and report

 

1) I do not recommend any settings. In fact I recommend to not change the brightness/contrast/gamma settings IF the same landscape textures are used for LOD generation and in the game.

If you are following third party instructions like STEP for a specific load order and if there are questions you need to ask the guides authors.

 

If you load the terrain LOD textures from Test-Terrain-Tamriel.7z (see first post) you can see each LOD quad and gauge their pixel dimensions actually used on screen. Also use the map for LOD level 32.

 

LOD levels do not blend. They switch. LOD levels do not affect each other. The only blending happens inside the loaded cells between the full terrain textures and the terrain LOD level 4 diffuse.

 

2) To have snow match I suggest to disable the "improved" snow setting.

Edited December 28, 2020 by sheson

[blessedmilkyway]

Here are my current results. As you can see, it's pretty close, the only issue that remains is the darker areas (circled in red).
 

 
For some reason, even after applying noise and tweaking settings, the rest of the cell can be corrected fine, but the darker greens are just too dark.
 
Could it be that xLODgen just darkens too much darker colors when making the LODs?
 
Also, I'm thinking of maybe manually editing the most problematic areas, and then using xLODgen for the rest. I'm not sure what would be the best way since I'm not too familiar with the files/tools yet (maybe extracting bsa, finding the full texture dds, and then copy paste them in the LOD4 dds?)

1) I do not recommend any settings. In fact I recommend to not change the brightness/contrast/gamma settings IF the same landscape textures are used for LOD generation and in the game.

If you are following third party instructions like STEP for a specific load order and if there are questions you need to ask the guides authors.

 

If you load the terrain LOD textures from Test-Terrain-Tamriel.7z (see first post) you can see each LOD quad and gauge their pixel dimensions actually used on screen. Also use the map for LOD level 32.

 

LOD levels do not blend. They switch. LOD levels do not affect each other. The only blending happens inside the loaded cells between the full terrain textures and the terrain LOD level 4 diffuse.

 

2) To have snow match I suggest to disable the "improved" snow setting.

1) Tried it but for some reason the LOD wouldn't work, but I'll try again.

 

2) Even with improved snow setting off, the LODs are still noticeably darker, even after noise and using brightness settings in xLODGen. However, using a mod with very white snow (like nordic snow) produces LOD's that are brighter/truly white, and I can just disable the mod after, it's all fine and the LOD's are perfect for the snow.

Edited December 28, 2020 by blessedmilkyway

[sheson]

Here are my current results. As you can see, it's pretty close, the only issue that remains is the darker areas (circled in red).

 

 

For some reason, even after applying noise and tweaking settings, the rest of the cell can be corrected fine, but the darker greens are just too dark.

 

Could it be that xLODgen just darkens too much darker colors when making the LODs?

 

Also, I'm thinking of maybe manually editing the most problematic areas, and then using xLODgen for the rest. I'm not sure what would be the best way since I'm not too familiar with the files/tools yet (maybe extracting bsa, finding the full texture dds, and then copy paste them in the LOD4 dds?)

1) Tried it but for some reason the LOD wouldn't work, but I'll try again.

 

2) Even with improved snow setting off, the LODs are still noticeably darker, even after noise and using brightness settings in xLODGen. However, using a mod with very white snow (like nordic snow) produces LOD's that are brighter/truly white, and I can just disable the mod after, it's all fine and the LOD's are perfect for the snow.

 

If the brightness/contrast/gamma are default, xLODGen does not modify any textures at all.

If the brightness/contrast/gamma are not default, they are applied equally to the final terrain LOD texture just before saving.

 

Also make sure to keep the default setting bEnableProjecteUVDiffuseNormals=1 so snow etc. keeps its original brightness.

 

Object LOD uses textures\landscape\snow01.dds and textures\landscape\snow02.dds as well (If you use TexGen)

 

If you see a difference between the full texture and the resized LOD texture it because of shaders or INI settings that are applied in the game afterwards.

Edited December 28, 2020 by sheson

[blessedmilkyway]

If the brightness/contrast/gamma are default, xLODGen does not modify any textures at all.

If the brightness/contrast/gamma are not default, they are applied equally to the final terrain LOD texture just before saving.

 

Also make sure to keep the default setting bEnableProjecteUVDiffuseNormals=1 so snow etc. keeps its original brightness.

 

Object LOD uses textures\landscape\snow01.dds and textures\landscape\snow02.dds as well (If you use TexGen)

 

If you see a difference between the full texture and the resized LOD texture it because of shaders or INI settings that are applied in the game afterwards.

That's great info, I was just wondering how the snow on object LOD was done...that's great to know, thanks.

 

I have bEnableProjecteUVDiffuseNormals=1 already yeah.

 

So ok, it's the engine that just put a strong darker tone on those greens, even after I corrected the rest of the cell...thanks for the infos.

[sheson]

That's great info, I was just wondering how the snow on object LOD was done...that's great to know, thanks.

 

I have bEnableProjecteUVDiffuseNormals=1 already yeah.

 

So ok, it's the engine that just put a strong darker tone on those greens, even after I corrected the rest of the cell...thanks for the infos.

Trying to identify the colored patches from the scrreenshots, those are probably the vertex color information from the LAND record painted on top of things. I will have a look at this again how it's done and compare that with the reverse engineered shaders from the SkyrimRE project we have available now.

[blessedmilkyway]

Trying to identify the colored patches from the scrreenshots, those are probably the vertex color information from the LAND record painted on top of things. I will have a look at this again how it's done and compare that with the reverse engineered shaders from the SkyrimRE project we have available now.

That would be the least nail in the coffin of terrain LOD if it could be done...

 

I just tested with some grass and the quality is already good enough to not notice any terrain pop in anymore, it's just great now. Even with vanilla landscape, I can't really tell now with a bit of grass.

[sheson]

That would be the least nail in the coffin of terrain LOD if it could be done...

 

I just tested with some grass and the quality is already good enough to not notice any terrain pop in anymore, it's just great now. Even with vanilla landscape, I can't really tell now with a bit of grass.

Looking at the shader it seems to do the the usual diffuse * color multiplication, which is what xLODGen does.

 

Regardless, beta 65 now has a Vertex Color Intensity option to control how much of the vertex color overlay is applied to the final texture. Maybe do a specific chunk with 0.8 and compare with your earlier screenshots.

[blessedmilkyway]

Looking at the shader it seems to do the the usual diffuse * color multiplication, which is what xLODGen does.

 

Regardless, beta 65 now has a Vertex Color Intensity option to control how much of the vertex color overlay is applied to the final texture. Maybe do a specific chunk with 0.8 and compare with your earlier screenshots.

Updating with new screenshots : it seems to happen only on LOD4 level. I've noticed it as well in mountains area where it shows also in the same way.

 

The LOD8 look great and consistent from afar with the fully loaded cell, the over darkening effect happens only on LOD4 then goes away again when the cell is loaded. So LOD8 is more correct to the fully loaded cell than LOD4 is.

 

(all settings in xLODgen regarding brightness/contrast and gamma are the same through all LOD levels)

 

Also looked into the beta 65 vertex colors but it seems the setting applies to all LOD levels, but this issue seems to be specific to LOD4 only, so not sure what is happening.

 

[sheson]

Updating with new screenshots : it seems to happen only on LOD4 level. I've noticed it as well in mountains area where it shows also in the same way.

 

The LOD8 look great and consistent from afar with the fully loaded cell, the over darkening effect happens only on LOD4 then goes away again when the cell is loaded. So LOD8 is more correct to the fully loaded cell than LOD4 is.

 

(all settings in xLODgen regarding brightness/contrast and gamma are the same through all LOD levels)

 

Also looked into the beta 65 vertex colors but it seems the setting applies to all LOD levels, but this issue seems to be specific to LOD4 only, so not sure what is happening.

 

 

What seems to happen on LOD level 4? LOD does not cast or receive shadows. xLODGen/DynDOLOD are LOD generators. They do not change how the engine works. Especially not how the engine fades full terrain and terrain LOD.

 

You seem to be confused what or where the attached cells are and what the LOD levels 4 and 8 are or where they start.

Type tll in console to turn off LOD. The terrain that is left are the attached cells. 

 

 

Of course the vertex color intensity applies to all LOD levels all the same.

Edited December 30, 2020 by sheson

[blessedmilkyway]

Looking at the shader it seems to do the the usual diffuse * color multiplication, which is what xLODGen does.

 

Regardless, beta 65 now has a Vertex Color Intensity option to control how much of the vertex color overlay is applied to the final texture. Maybe do a specific chunk with 0.8 and compare with your earlier screenshots.

Here's an update with different vertex settings on a specific junk.

 

0.01 gives the best result, literally negating the darkening effect (0 seems to do the same as vertex colors=1).

 

I'm going to render a full map see how it goes.

 

[sheson]

Here's an update with different vertex settings on a specific junk.

 

0.01 gives the best result, literally negating the darkening effect (0 seems to do the same as vertex colors=1).

 

I'm going to render a full map see how it goes.

 

These screenshot look like you are looking at the attached cell area - probably faded with terrain LOD texture diffuse Type tll to disable LOD. If the terrain stays it is loaded cells. 

 

That would explain why 0 * vertexcolor is still visible, because the terrain and dark spot is - at least in part - fully loaded terrain.

[blessedmilkyway]

These screenshot look like you are looking at the attached cell area - probably faded with terrain LOD texture diffuse Type tll to disable LOD. If the terrain stays it is loaded cells. 

 

That would explain why 0 * vertexcolor is still visible, because the terrain and dark spot is - at least in part - fully loaded terrain.

Yes it stays when doing console tll.

 

I did a full map 1K with vertex colors 0.01 and checked the most problematic areas and it did the trick. The blended part and the fully loaded cell are now consistent.

 

So what I was considering as LOD4 is not actually LOD4 but a blend between LOD4 and fully loaded cells?

 

Do you have ressources/articles that explains how LODs work in that regard?

 

The result is very good with vertex Colors = 0.01 so far.

Edited December 30, 2020 by blessedmilkyway

[sheson]

Yes it stays when doing console tll.

 

I did a full map 1K with vertex colors 0.01 and checked the most problematic areas and it did the trick. The blended part and the fully loaded cell are now consistent.

 

So what I was considering as LOD4 is not actually LOD4 but a blend between LOD4 and fully loaded cells?

 

Do you have ressources/articles that explains how LODs work in that regard?

 

The result is very good with vertex Colors = 0.01 so far.

 

 

The circular blending of full textures to terrain LOD diffuse texture has come a couple times on this forum. It is rather easy to spot, disable grass, tcl into the air, look straight down. Nothing can be really done about it. Eventually someone will hopefully update the shader and simply disable it (like it seems to be in Fallout).

Edited December 30, 2020 by sheson

[Stefan]

Does beta 65 automatically closes itself, or it crashed? This is the end of my log:

Finished LOD level RigmorRoscrea.4.52.60.btr [64/32]
Finished LOD level RigmorRoscrea.4.56.60.btr [64/32]
Finished LOD level RigmorRoscrea.4.60.60.btr [64/32]
Finished LOD level RigmorRoscrea.4.4.56.btr [8012/32]
Finished LOD level RigmorRoscrea.4.8.52.btr [16946/32]
Log ended at 3:46:07 AM (0:39)
Code: 0

Thank you.

[Stefan]

Also, how do I do a clean install? I have downloaded the 65 beta, removed everything inside the 64 folder, than unziped 65 in the same folder, but when I launch xLodgen through MO2, the 64 custom templates are still in the Terrain LOD4 LOD8, etc. 

 

Thank you.