Question about Texture optimization with DDSopt

[LewsTherin]

Hi everyone!

 

I've almost completed a STEP installation of FNV, and i've just successfully optimized vanilla textures. I have put the 12 archives into MO download folder, and then I installed them with MO one by one. I have a few questions though:

 

1) Does Loot manage load order also for optimized texture archives?

1a) If not, do I just let them sitting at the end of my load order?

2) Should I move original BSAs from data folder or I just keep them there?

 

Thanks :)

 

edit: darn. There is an extra t in optimization in the title. Sorry about that  :confused:

Edited June 8, 2015 by LewsTherin

[Nozzer66]

1) Nope, LOOT only orders plug ins. Texture packs usually don't have a plugin.

1a) You can pretty much put texture packs anywhere, but keep in mind: that if you have multiple texture packs all of which provide a texture for a certain object, that the one lowest on the left pane will 'win'. and 'overwrite' the other ones. (Note I say overwrite, but nothing actually ever gets written over, it just wont be loaded.)

2) Doesn't really matter. If you're hurting for space maybe. However don't forget that BSA's can, and often do, contain more than just textures. 

Edited June 8, 2015 by Nozzer66

[LewsTherin]

Thanks for the answer :)

 

So I guess it's better put optimized files at the same spot they were before optimization, after I run loot... Should I put vanilla texture packs (optimized) near the relative ems file, like I saw in a thread regarding Skyrim and DDSopt?

 

Like it is shown in this image https://i.imgur.com/LehXkSj.png

Edited June 8, 2015 by LewsTherin

[Nozzer66]

If I optimize textures for a mod I usually throw it in right after that mod on the left pane, yes. That's usually just for clarity. 

 

Like:

Falskaar

Falskaar Optimized Textures

Wyrmstooth

Wyrms Optimized Textures

Moonpath to Elsweyr

Moonpath Optimized Textures

Mod X

Mod X Optimized Textures

 

Like your pic suggests, yes.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Nozzer66

[GrantSP]

2) Should I move original BSAs from data folder or I just keep them there?

 

I would advise against this. While it might be possible to do so I would imagine the game engine will 'have a fit' upon initialisation when it sees them missing. Even with MO providing the VFS with them loaded there would likely be problematic.

Additionally you don't actually gain anything from moving them, they must still exist somewhere on your system, why not where they should be?

 

 

P.S. I also fixed your typo in the title.

[oqhansoloqo]

If I optimize textures for a mod I usually throw it in right after that mod on the left pane, yes. That's usually just for clarity. 

 

Personally, I keep all of the mod archive packages (what you get when you first download a mod) stored on my computer somewhere even after installation - a non-SSD storage drive.  I organize all of them into different directories (STEP, STEP Extended, Custom, etc.).  My installed game and mods are on a SSD storage drive, btw.  When I want to optimize textures for a mod, I take the installed mod's directory and run it through the whole DDSOpt process (though I do not re-archive).  After optimizing, I just take the optimized product and throw it back into MO's installed mods folder.  Then I rename the mod to add "(DDSOpt)" to the front part of the name so that I know that I altered the mod.  That's how I do it.

 

EDIT: So I don't have 2 separate installations - the original mod and then the optimized textures that overwrite... I just have one optimized mod, because I'd rather keep things cleaner with less overwrites and less space used on my SSD.

[LewsTherin]

 

 After optimizing, I just take the optimized product and throw it back into MO's installed mods folder

I'm happy I can use the same files, it was a pain looking at my poor cpu working at 100% speed for half an hour, with few breaks between various optimization steps    

 

Personally, I keep all of the mod archive packages (what you get when you first download a mod) stored on my computer somewhere even after installation - a non-SSD storage drive.  I organize all of them into different directories (STEP, STEP Extended, Custom, etc.). 

I did the same, it's very useful when I want to check where I did something wrong

 

 

I'm going a bit off topic: my first attempt of F&L install failed miserably (the game crashes just after loading), and I can't find what is wrong. I've checked with FNVEdit if there were plugins misplaced (esps before relative esms), but apparently it was not the problem because FNVEdit didn't return anything wrong... Also, after making a bashed patch, I ended with ~115 plugins, which are a bit more than the goal of ~100 stated in the STEP guide. Is that part of the guide outdated or (more likely) I just did something wrong?

 

Regarding MO, after I finished making the bashed patch, there were ~20 plugins automatically deactivated in the right panel. Are they the plugins merged in bashed patch? I think so, but I'd like a confirmation 

 

In the left panel, there were also a bunch of plugins deactivated (besides the ones that were merged during install), and a dozen of them (all of which being small retexture mods) were flagged as "redundant" but still ticked. DO I have to keep them activated? Guessing I did something wrong, I just uninstalled everything and now that I became more accustomed with modding process I restart from scratch.  

 

Another thing: do you keep tools (FNVEdit, DDSopt, MO, etc) in NV directory (each in its own folder), or do you put them in a separate directory with subfolders for each tool?

Edited June 9, 2015 by LewsTherin

[Nozzer66]

 

 

I'm happy I can use the same files, it was a pain looking at my poor cpu working at 100% speed for half an hour, with few breaks between various optimization steps    

 

I did the same, it's very useful when I want to check where I did something wrong

 

 

I'm going a bit off topic: my first attempt of F&L install failed miserably (the game crashes just after loading), and I can't find what is wrong. I've checked with FNVEdit if there were plugins misplaced (esps before relative esms), but apparently it was not the problem because FNVEdit didn't return anything wrong... Also, after making a bashed patch, I ended with ~115 plugins, which are a bit more than the goal of ~100 stated in the STEP guide. Is that part of the guide outdated or (more likely) I just did something wrong?

 

Regarding MO, after I finished making the bashed patch, there were ~20 plugins automatically deactivated in the right panel. Are they the plugins merged in bashed patch? I think so, but I'd like a confirmation 

 

In the left panel, there were also a bunch of plugins deactivated (besides the ones that were merged during install), and a dozen of them (all of which being small retexture mods) were flagged as "redundant" but still ticked. DO I have to keep them activated? Guessing I did something wrong, I just uninstalled everything and now that I became more accustomed with modding process I restart from scratch.  

 

Another thing: do you keep tools (FNVEdit, DDSopt, MO, etc) in NV directory (each in its own folder), or do you put them in a separate directory with subfolders for each tool?

 

With F and L and 115ish plugins, that's fine. You're still under the plug in limit. The crashing is another issue however.

 

Typically yes those unticked ones will be the ones merged into the Bashed patch. Leave them there they're not hurting anything. :)

 

If something's marked as redundant, then you can easily remove it, but in an F and L install it shouldn't happen. Suspect maybe something went awry there.

 

DDSopt is portable so you can put it anywhere. The xEdit programs I just throw in the New Vegas/Fallout3/Skyrim directory. (I believe that actually have to be there to work anyway). Wrye Bash the same, just extract the Mopy folder to the relevant main game directory. Tools that are not game specific, like LOOT, I just install to it's own directory.

[LewsTherin]

Yeah, i definitely messed up something in the beginning, when I didn't fully understand ho to merge some patches and uninstalled/reinstalled a few mods several times :facepalm:  

 

About the crash, it was just a classic "CtD just after loading", but it happened when using FNV4Gb loader in MO. If I used the loader directly from FNV main folder, the game started, but apparently without mods (no MCM for example, and no hi-res textures). 

 

I should've tested the game more than once (just after the user-interface section as stated in the guide). If I can make a little observation on the (almost perfect) guide, it would be probably better to advice testing more often (maybe once for each section), it could help non-expert users remembering that an error is always around the corner 

Edited June 9, 2015 by LewsTherin

[oqhansoloqo]

If I were you, I would go and disable all mods first.  Then I would enable about 10 at a time and run bashed patch.  Then try to load the game and see that it works.  Keep doing this routine until the game doesn't load - now you know that it's one of the last ten mods you just enabled.

[Nozzer66]

Mate, I run the game after every SECTION of mods is done, (occasionally after every mod, even, when it's a big one like FCO or NVR or Project Nevada etc.) just to make sure all's running and there's nothing screaming at me. That's just standard practice that everyone should have in their testing arsenal.

 

You will get the hang of it after 1-2 tries.

[LewsTherin]

Ok. I have followed the guide all through the UI section (plus dynavision 3 which I use instead of ENB), and i've been EXTREMELY careful regarding the various mod merging / bsa extractions / patch merging. I'm pretty sure i have made it right. 

 

The game starts if I use 4gb Loader directly from FNV install folder, but obviously with no mod loaded. NVSE is working as well, because when I check the version with the console command it returns the right answer (4).

 

If i try loading 4gb launcher through MO, the game doesn't start, but it crashes after a few seconds with "Fallout NV has stopped working" error. The same happens if I try to use any other launcher from MO (standard launcher, NVSE.exe, falloutNV.exe). 

 

I've tried:

 

1) launching vanilla game, no mods activated

2) launching MO with admin privileges and win 7 compatibility

3) setting admin privileges and compatibility to all the executables (4gb loader, falloutNV.exe, NVSE.exe, MO)

4) i've added "-laaexe .\FalloutMO.exe " argument in MO

 

with no luck whatsoever. Always the same error message.

 

I have found that 4gb loader might have problems with windows 8.1 (which i'm using), but I have already made the same test a couple days ago during my first attempt and I'm pretty sure the game just loaded, as I remember I've started tampering with MCM. So i don't understand why suddenly MO doesn't load the game anymore...

 

Any clue? 

[oqhansoloqo]

Doesn't the 4gb loader have an "exes" folder where you have to put something into it?  In mine I have d3d9.dll and falloutnv.exe

[LewsTherin]

In mine there is only falloutNV.exe, no d3d9.dll, which should be required only if you use ENB if i'm not mistaken...

 

By the way, I put d3d9.dll from ENB wrapper folder into exes folder, no luck...

Edited June 10, 2015 by LewsTherin

[Kelmych]

Did you try starting the game under MO without having Dynavision present; it may be the cause of at least some of the problems? The vanilla game has a d3d9.dll file in the main game folder, by the way. It's not a good idea to give MO administrative privileges; sometimes it is needed with utility programs. Many people with Windows 8.1 (like me) are able to run start FNV with MO with the 4 Gb loader. You should be able to use the Fallout Launcher (and other launchers) from MO; try doing this with an MO profile that has only the vanilla Fallout files. When this works try the more involved game launch options.