pack A Real Explorer's Guide to Skyrim

[Sartho]

I'm guessing we don't update to the newest version of CRF because of the new things he's added to it right?

[Kuldebar]

I looked into RRR and chose to use the LITE version. Because it realistically changed the room rental prices which was much needed; but I felt the other changes were far too widespread/blanket effect/mission creep.

 

I use ETaC's Inns and get the benefits of realistic room rental rates. I like having my cake and eating it. :)

 

I prefer specialized (at least I generally attempt to seek out and use them) mods with narrower scopes, they make it easier for me to keep things where they belong. It took me a long time to even try out ETaC, but now with the exception of CJ's REGs (which I'd argue isn't really an outside project), ETaC is my defacto Town/City mod.

 

As soon as I discovered that Immersive Patrols Module (Travelers.esp) was adding furniture to Inns, I stopped using the module in my active build. An NPC mod should not be adding furniture, that's outside the expected scope, at least for me. Besides, as CJ has pointed out several times, NPC mods don't require furniture, they can just simply use existing markers.

 

My point is just emphasizing my mod philosophy, lol. I like to keep it simple, it's like herding cats, but the regimentation helps me keep things square in my game.

[cstarkey42]

Thanks for the clarification, CJ.

 

Immersive Patrol's Travelers.esp adds furniture?  Seriously?  That's so annoying.  Looks like I have more mods to merge now...it never, ever ends.

[Kuldebar]

cstarkey42, on 03 Jun 2014 - 5:46 PM, said:

Thanks for the clarification, CJ.

 

Immersive Patrol's Travelers.esp adds furniture?  Seriously?  That's so annoying.  Looks like I have more mods to merge now...it never, ever ends.

Yeah, it's not a problem unless you have a mod that changes/overhauls Inns/Taverns. Immersive Patrol's Travelers.esp had interior cell edits in Morthal and Falkreath. Here's what MJB posted when I was trying to figure out the nature of the conflict:

 

Quote

For the time-being, you guys are probably just going to have to either use Immersive Patrols WITHOUT the Travelers.esp (is the only IP file that makes the conflict-ey changes) -OR- Use ETaC's Complete Inn-less version ( -OR-OR- Modular Falkreath and Morthal Inn-less versions.)I'm wary to advise you to have ETaC load after or to remove those edits from Immersive Patrols since I have ZERO idea why it's making them lol. For all I know Immersive Patrols has some quest or another that REQUIRES those chairs, if it does, loading ETaC after, or removing the chairs, will break those quests. So.. use your best judgment on that. (Read: I am not liable! lol.)

 

Edited June 4, 2014 by Kuldebar

[noobzor]

As soon as I discovered that Immersive Patrols Module (Travelers.esp) was adding furniture to Inns, I stopped using the module in my active build. An NPC mod should not be adding furniture, that's outside the expected scope, at least for me. Besides, as CJ has pointed out several times, NPC mods don't require furniture, they can just simply use existing markers.

But Immersive Patrols doesn't add any furniture to anything...that is not the problem.  The problem is that it added ref markers to existing furniture that ETaC had moved or disabled.  What they should have done was use X markers instead of attaching it directly to the furniture.  

 

I think the actual issue is much less serious than Jenna anticipated, though...she erred on the side of caution.  I tried this out with letting ETaC overwrite the edits from Immersive Patrols, and the only issues I have seen is that some people won't sit down.  There are always so many people standing around in inns, tough, it is hardly noticeable.

Edited June 4, 2014 by noobzor

[cstarkey42]

@Kuldebar  Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea IP would add anything to the inns.  Oh well, it will take 10 seconds to merge the rest instead of using the merged patch has posted and it gives me a chance to lose the bandits module also.  I've never purchased anything from any of the traveling merchants and between obis, asis, the people of skyrim bandits and random encounters I have more bandits than I know what to do with anyway.

[Kuldebar]

noobzor, on 03 Jun 2014 - 7:12 PM, said:

But Immersive Patrols doesn't add any furniture to anything...that is not the problem.  The problem is that it added ref markers to existing furniture that ETaC had moved or disabled.  What they should have done was use X markers instead of attaching it directly to the furniture.  

 

I think the actual issue is much less serious than Jenna anticipated, though...she erred on the side of caution.  I tried this out with letting ETaC overwrite the edits from Immersive Patrols, and the only issues I have seen is that some people won't sit down.  There are always so many people standing around in inns, tough, it is hardly noticeable.

LOL, I won't quibble, but the furniture manifested in the interior cell, it was undesired, unwanted and was causing clipping issues.

 

[noobzor]

LOL, I won't quibble, but the furniture manifested in the interior cell, it was undesired, unwanted and was causing clipping issues.

 

Yeah, I remember when that came up in the ETaC forum.  I just wanted to clarify what the issue actually was (not intending to start an argument or anything).  Adding ref markers to furniture is, in my opinion, even worse than adding new furniture, and is why Jenna was hesitant to make any specific recommendations about how to compatibilize it.  

 

On a completely different note, I discovered that for me, LOOT is trying to put Dawn of Riften after both Nightingale Hall and REGS - Riften NavFull.  I had to make a couple of rules to get those in the right order.  Something other LOOT users might want to be aware of.

Edited June 4, 2014 by noobzor

[cstarkey42]

How does that work?  Do the ref markers cause the vanilla furniture to stay in the game, as in the pic Kuldebar posted, or does it just mark an area for the npc to go, causing them to stand around like Noobzor said?  I'm just curious what, exactly, a ref marker does.  I've always loaded IP well before ETAC, where boss places it, but for all I know I've had extra furniture all along since I'm sure I've been using IP long before I ever discovered ETAC.

[Kuldebar]

Yeah, LOOT does have a way of reordering things differently. A person with mods A, B, C, and D might have a different relative load order than a person with A, B, D and F. Mod F may cause LOOT to sort A and B differently etc. It's that whole "black box" of mystery (at least to the human outside the box) kind of thing which makes it hard to expressly list proper load orders.

 

Yes, if we all have the EXACT same mods and no variance, LOOT will be consistent, but start adding the extras and the optional and the exceptions and BAM! ...LOOT will reshuffle the deck based on the many new variables and priorities.

[noobzor]

How does that work?  Do the ref markers cause the vanilla furniture to stay in the game, as in the pic Kuldebar posted, or does it just mark an area for the npc to go, causing them to stand around like Noobzor said?  I'm just curious what, exactly, a ref marker does.  I've always loaded IP well before ETAC, where boss places it, but for all I know I've had extra furniture all along since I'm sure I've been using IP long before I ever discovered ETAC.

 

Well, the ref marker just means it is referenced in some kind of package or quest or something.  In this case, it looks like it is part of an AI package that tells the npc to go sit in the chair or in a nearby chair, but it could be something else...it's hard to tell for sure.  

 

If you have IP loaded after ETaC, it just overwrites ETaC's edits and the furniture is either re-enabled, or in the case of the chair, got moved back to its vanilla position...that doesn't really have anything to do with the marker.  

 

If ETaC is after IP, then the stuff will be disabled and the NPC's just won't be able to get to it in order to do whatever it was they were supposed to do.  If that was a quest, the quest might be broken.  If it was an AI package, the NPC may just stand around for a bit until it goes to a different state.

 

The only time i know of that it will actually cause crashes is if ETaC had deleted the record, which is why deleted records are bad and it is part of the whole mod cleaning thing.

Edited June 4, 2014 by noobzor

[cstarkey42]

I see.  Thanks for the explanation Noobzor.

[CJ2311]

On a completely different note, I discovered that for me, LOOT is trying to put Dawn of Riften after both Nightingale Hall and REGS - Riften NavFull.  I had to make a couple of rules to get those in the right order.  Something other LOOT users might want to be aware of.

How does that even work? REGS - Riften NavFull has Dawn of Riften as a master. If it gets sorted after DoR, then that's nothing short of a bug.

[vidalia]

But Immersive Patrols doesn't add any furniture to anything...that is not the problem.  The problem is that it added ref markers to existing furniture that ETaC had moved or disabled.  What they should have done was use X markers instead of attaching it directly to the furniture.  

 

I think the actual issue is much less serious than Jenna anticipated, though...she erred on the side of caution.  I tried this out with letting ETaC overwrite the edits from Immersive Patrols, and the only issues I have seen is that some people won't sit down.  There are always so many people standing around in inns, tough, it is hardly noticeable.

There are no quests in the Immersive Patrols - Travellers plugin. If you use ETAC Inns and load IP Travellers before it it would just mean that the travellers/merchants from the plugins will not be able to visit the Etac edited inns as those furniture ref markers are their package travel destinations. You should still be able to encounter them on roads though.

[noobzor]

How does that even work? REGS - Riften NavFull has Dawn of Riften as a master. If it gets sorted after DoR, then that's nothing short of a bug.

I have no idea.  I may be mistaken about this and it was only the Dawn of Riften/Nightingale Hall that was out of order...I will double check

 

Edit:  I can't replicate it now.  I was probably just tired and mixed it up with one of the other "Dawn of X" mods.  It still wants to put DoR after Nightingale Hall.

 

There are no quests in the Immersive Patrols - Travellers plugin. If you use ETAC Inns and load IP Travellers before it it would just mean that the travellers/merchants from the plugins will not be able to visit the Etac edited inns as those furniture ref markers are their package travel destinations. You should still be able to encounter them on roads though.

In this case, it looks like they are making it into the Inns anyway but just not sitting down...at least as far as I could tell.  I might be mixing them up with NPCs from different mods.

Edited June 4, 2014 by noobzor