FO4LODGen

[sheson]

I get a message saying I am missing the  FO4_XLODGEN_Options.txt (or something like this) file from the Edit Scripts folder. I couldn't copy the exact message, sry. But looking in the Edit Scripts folder, there is no ...._Options.txt file

 

Lod seems to generate ok for me. But I do get a strange flickering when its sunny weather and looking in a certain direction. I read compression might be the issue? I have tried lowering Specular strength of my lod nifs as well as darkening the specular white areas. 

 

But after reading about compression I am thinking that might be the cause. I always Generate with dtx1 as diffuse and 5 for normal and spec. Should I try 888? and if so, is that just on the diffuse or on all 3?

 

Sry this video is bad quality but the issue is most noticable around 25 seconds in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVaWlVRXrDY

The text in the message windows can be marked and copied to the clipboard. Once the program is closed all the messages are saved to FO4LODGen_log.txt.

 

The message is "No options file found: C:\Skyrim\xLODGen\Edit Scripts\FO4LODGen_[Plugin_Worldspace]_Options.txt". That is expected and the default. The Options file can be used to set custom options for LODGen.exe.

 

You mean the shadowy thing on the trees in the video? That looks a bit like (ENB) low quality Ambient Occlusion to me.

 

Those look like 2D billboard trees? FO4 does not have billboard tree LOD but of course that can be done in object LOD. This requires good understanding about the normals and how to create the normal map and the specular textures. I am not even sure how to make a specular billboard texture right now.

 

The Object LOD atlas has 3 separate compression settings for each of the 3 texture types Diffuse, Normal and Specular.

 

All vanilla textures always use BC5 for normal _s and specular _s textures. That 2 channel compression is pretty much perfect for these textures.

If the input textures use BC5, there is usually no point using a different compression for the output atlas textures.

 

In any case I have no idea if or which of the textures are even related to what you might be seeing.

[Oynlen]

Thanks for reply. I tested something I should have tried earlier. I installed Boston Natural Surroundings mod and tested how  its LOD looks. The shadows that pass along the tree lods in a sort striped pattern at a 45 degree angle were still there . 

 

So you are probably right about it being Something from ENB. I have always used ENB in its default state and previously used Boston Natural Surroundings. Maybe I never noticed it as much idk. Making my own textures and meshes I am very much looking at them closer. 

 

For the meshs I reduced the specular strength and this removed the odd effect of them getting brighter when rotating camera towards them. 

 

I will admit I also have basically zero knowledge on normals and specs. I use gimp and its Normal map filter, then increase the contrast to give more bump texture. For specs all I know is white = reflective and black equals dull.

 

I read the FO4 specs are much more complex than this but I made a few for my Zombie mod just by desaturating the diffuse and adjusting contrast the get the desired look. its probably the bare basics of what is capable but it works. 

 

So for the tree lods I just made them basically black as I don't want any reflection and also decreased the specular strength. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Oynlen

[Oynlen]

It seems that a setting in ENB in the Effects tab called Enable Detailed Shadows was causing this. I am no expert with ENB. I have never used any presets. I only used it because I heard it can utilise extra ram as Vram, that and it has a fps counter, lol.

 

Its possible I am supposed to disable vanilla shadow settings in the ini files first. But simpler for me was just to disable The ENB setting I mention above. Still not happy with how bright the lods are Mainly coz as you get closer the LoD morphs into the real tree and at about the same distance the shadows are applied. So it goes from light to very dark. But messing with textures and meshes, back light power tec should get a better and more subtle result eventually. 

[sheson]

If you upload one of those models and its accompanying LOD meshes/textures I could have look. I can not promise anything but may something sticks out that helps.

[Oynlen]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/wiqcey43qi41srv/Winter_Pines.rar/file 

 

This is the file WIP. FullPile02_0 will be changed back to FullPile02_1 later. That one Is easy fix though. 

 

I have tested so many flag settings in the bsShaderProperties in Nifskope. Currently you will see my settings I think. Trying Black as Spec.. but then later even removing the spec flag...

 

I think my problem could be that I chose the Hero Tree Lod to use as a base, (vanilla, not DLC03) I think it might have shader properties baked into it? There are shader properties greyed out that I can't edit. I later found your Flat LOD in xlodgen  Edit Scripts. dam, that probably would have been a better base to build from. It seem to start from a more basic generic standpoint.  I assumed coz the hero Lod was a lod it would be fine, but actually, those trees don't appear often when you use that mesh for an entire horizon of trees I think you get trouble. 

 

Main thing is its goes from bright to dull when rotating camera. This only happens on sunny times and sanctuary bridge is best to test, standing at Red Rocket end.

 

I use NAC and enable winter climate, I would never see this using climate mods as it seems to be only the sun effect that causes it... but I kinda wanna get it working on a base level. The guys who made these meshes, textures and worldspace edits before I edited them all gave permission to post this as a mod. I wanted it as an accompaniment to IcePick OverHaul, and an addition to Nuclear Winter by Divine. It is basically just a retexture or Boston Natural Surrounds, But I removed all other plants and Scols BNS added. Replaced all Scols with just single pines and Flagged every entry Visible at Distance. Also renamed the meshes so they are stand alone from Far Harbour. 

 

Unsure yet If I will keep it like that or not. Added some half dead pines, some dead pines and some aspen trees for more variation. (I think the Aspen trees aka chargen have bad vertex alpha paint, but that is vanilla game) but yeah its basically BNS with  different textures and meshs

 

Silverfox600 did the hard yards placing all those trees. The only edit I plan to do is removing 4 trees near CIT and editing 1 to sink it deeper.

[sheson]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/wiqcey43qi41srv/Winter_Pines.rar/file 

 

This is the file WIP. FullPile02_0 will be changed back to FullPile02_1 later. That one Is easy fix though. 

 

I have tested so many flag settings in the bsShaderProperties in Nifskope. Currently you will see my settings I think. Trying Black as Spec.. but then later even removing the spec flag...

 

I think my problem could be that I chose the Hero Tree Lod to use as a base, (vanilla, not DLC03) I think it might have shader properties baked into it? There are shader properties greyed out that I can't edit. I later found your Flat LOD in xlodgen  Edit Scripts. dam, that probably would have been a better base to build from. It seem to start from a more basic generic standpoint.  I assumed coz the hero Lod was a lod it would be fine, but actually, those trees don't appear often when you use that mesh for an entire horizon of trees I think you get trouble. 

 

Main thing is its goes from bright to dull when rotating camera. This only happens on sunny times and sanctuary bridge is best to test, standing at Red Rocket end.

 

I use NAC and enable winter climate, I would never see this using climate mods as it seems to be only the sun effect that causes it... but I kinda wanna get it working on a base level. The guys who made these meshes, textures and worldspace edits before I edited them all gave permission to post this as a mod. I wanted it as an accompaniment to IcePick OverHaul, and an addition to Nuclear Winter by Divine. It is basically just a retexture or Boston Natural Surrounds, But I removed all other plants and Scols BNS added. Replaced all Scols with just single pines and Flagged every entry Visible at Distance. Also renamed the meshes so they are stand alone from Far Harbour. 

 

Unsure yet If I will keep it like that or not. Added some half dead pines, some dead pines and some aspen trees for more variation. (I think the Aspen trees aka chargen have bad vertex alpha paint, but that is vanilla game) but yeah its basically BNS with  different textures and meshs

 

Silverfox600 did the hard yards placing all those trees. The only edit I plan to do is removing 4 trees near CIT and editing 1 to sink it deeper.

First keep this in mind: LODGen.exe will limit the shader flags and settings to the ones found in the vanilla LOD for best compatibility. So certain things you are setting in the LOD source model will just be ignored once it is added to the BTOs.

You can instruct LODGen to keep (some) non vanilla settings by either added passthru to the LOD model file name (impractical without DynDOLOD, because you would need to update lots of base records), adding  a passthru file mask to the options file, so all LOD models matching that mask keep their shader settings (impractical in some cases because it applies to all shaders in a NIF) or by adding "passthru" to the BSTriShape name (e.g. "TreeChargen01_LOD_0:1" -> "TreeChargen01_LOD_0:1 Passthru").

 

While testing if different settings have an affect in the game, do that in a BTO directly. Once you have the desired settings update the LOD model with them. If you find some settings still don't get through despite a "passthru" command let me know so I can update LODGen.exe.

 

Now the most important thing that affects how a triangle is lit is the normal vector, which is defined together with the vertices and UV. It basically points into the direction from which a light source illuminates the triangle the most. With a double sided triangle the back side gets as much light as is defined by Backlight Power (for vanilla LOD models the shader settings in the NIF are often overwritten by the settings in the referenced BGSM files). For models without "passthru" check the Use backlight power checkbox so this settings is kept.

 

By default the normal vector points perpendicular from the triangle surface. That does not work very well for the planes. If you check DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\DynDOLOD_flat_2x2_lod.nif you will notice its normal vectors point upwards instead, basically to where the sun is at noon. That works somewhat better as long as the trees stand upright because usually the normals are rotated with the model.

 

You can instruct LODGen to not rotate normals by adding "FixedNormals" to the BSTriShape name (e.g. "TreeChargen01_LOD_0:1 Passthru FixedNormals").

However such normal vectors pointing always straight upwards makes all sides of all the planes being lit exactly the same, which makes for very flat tree LOD (like the vanilla tree LOD in Skyrim).

To counter this, you can instruct LODGen to ignore the normal vectors and instead calculate them to be somewhat spherical by adding "SphereNormals" to the BSTriShape name (e.g. "TreeChargen01_LOD_0:1 Passthru SphereNormals"). It is briefly explained in DynDOLOD/Docs/trees.ultra/DynDOLOD-Trees.html with an image example.

 

This should help a bit with lighting and the normal map textures. I suppose this somehow should also affect specular and ENB.

 

Though, I never really did much testing with non vanilla specular textures/settings in FO4. It is something that is not supported (well) in Skyrim, so it is not something I looked into at all that much.

Also I am not sure how ENB plays into all this.

Edited April 28, 2019 by sheson

[Oynlen]

Thanks for all of that info. Some things I knew about, such as adding a backlight value to the source and selecting that checkbox to use it rather than the default of zero. Very self explanatory and simple. As well as BGSM files taking preference and applying their properties over what is set in the NIF.

None of my meshes use and Material BGSM.

 

Everything else is new to me here. I really don't know a lot about what I am doing. Probably the best option from the sound of it would be testing the spherical normals. I am guessing with this option, since it ignores the normal verctor, It wont matter Which direction it points to begin with? 

 

I'd probably be ok with even the flat looking LODs and a light source looking like its above, since all the pines are mostly upright. Thanks this will give me some more things to test.

 

My other option is to take the original Far Harbour LOD textures, erase most of the trees apart from trunks in each one and line up my own textures over the top, using the original far harbour Normals and Specs and of course Meshes. This I think was the method silver fox used. I wanted to have LOD more exact to the actual tree but even so, there is still an odd transition faze just as it transforms and shadows are added, Seems its never really going to be unnoticable.

 

And of course there is the option of making Low poly 3D meshes of the trees, But using the auto tools in Blender to do that warps them too much and I certainly don't have the patients to do it manually. 

 

Just to test something I copied the BSTriShapes of the trees into the LOD meshes and generated.. haha. Best looking LOD I ever seen! It still ran at 40-42 fps but I have a feeling it would cause VRam issues once things started happening in the game, I cant imagine a vertbird flight for instance would probably CTD.

 

 

Thank you for being so helpful btw.

[sheson]

Correct, the SphereNormals replaces the normals, so it doesn't matter what they are in the LOD model.

 

Such 3D tree LOD can work fine. It all depends on the number of trees and their total triangles. The most important optimization of LOD is that it creates large combined supermeshes of things and such 3D tree LOD does not really change that.

[Oynlen]

Can I ask? Can lodGen create the billboard atlas normal and specular textures from just the Source diffuse textures? I am unsure how to really create proper working Normals and specs using just Gimp. There is a Normal map filter tool, that seems to work ok, but specular? idk 

 

Guessing Photoshop probably has better plug-ins for this? 

[sheson]

Can I ask? Can lodGen create the billboard atlas normal and specular textures from just the Source diffuse textures? I am unsure how to really create proper working Normals and specs using just Gimp. There is a Normal map filter tool, that seems to work ok, but specular? idk 

 

Guessing Photoshop probably has better plug-ins for this? 

No. The LOD generation takes LOD assets (3D LOD models, textures) and combines them into supermeshes and texture atlas. 

 

Creating LOD assets form full models is on an entire different (manual or enterprise - Simplygon for example) level. In order to create true normal maps a high quality 3D model is required and I suppose specular would require some kind of material information of how reflective a surface should be.

 

It is possible to create decent normal maps for billboards by using NifSkope screeenshots with the light source lighting the model from left/right/top/bottom and then using https://xnormal.net/ PhotoNormal option.

[MissNinaK]

Hi guys. Still somewhat of a beginner using Lodgen and having a few problems. While Lodgen creates the LODS i assigned for the new custom trees im making, there are no LODS created for the SCOL objects consisting of these trees. I created the new tree SCOL objects using the Recreate Static Collision Meshes option in the Creation Kit. I then assigned the LODS to the trees using the Creation Kit, saving the esp, activating it in my Mod Manager and start Lodgen ticking only the Build Object Lod option. Am i doing something wrong? Hope the steps and problem are understandable. Thanks in advance!

[sheson]

Hi guys. Still somewhat of a beginner using Lodgen and having a few problems. While Lodgen creates the LODS i assigned for the new custom trees im making, there are no LODS created for the SCOL objects consisting of these trees. I created the new tree SCOL objects using the Recreate Static Collision Meshes option in the Creation Kit. I then assigned the LODS to the trees using the Creation Kit, saving the esp, activating it in my Mod Manager and start Lodgen ticking only the Build Object Lod option. Am i doing something wrong? Hope the steps and problem are understandable. Thanks in advance!

Certain flags or settings might be preventing LOD for them. Maybe upload an example plugin, then I could have a look?

[MissNinaK]

Certain flags or settings might be preventing LOD for them. Maybe upload an example plugin, then I could have a look?

Thanks for your answer. I tried again and now it seems to work fine. I now have another problem though unfortunaly. Hope you can help with that maybe. Its weird, sometimes all seems to work with the same options ticked, sometime it doesnt. I use the newest version 45.7. I applied the lod 1 and 2 for the new tree models i finsihed within the CK, saved as a new esp and ran LODGEN. Some LODs in my game work properly, in some areas though i for example see the LOD of a maple but as soon as i get closer it dissapears and i see that there isnt even a maple standing there if that makes any sense?

[sheson]

Thanks for your answer. I tried again and now it seems to work fine. I now have another problem though unfortunaly. Hope you can help with that maybe. Its weird, sometimes all seems to work with the same options ticked, sometime it doesnt. I use the newest version 45.7. I applied the lod 1 and 2 for the new tree models i finsihed within the CK, saved as a new esp and ran LODGEN. Some LODs in my game work properly, in some areas though i for example see the LOD of a maple but as soon as i get closer it dissapears and i see that there isnt even a maple standing there if that makes any sense?

LOD is just meshes and textures that loads past the loaded cells and does not influence references in the loaded cells - which you seem to have a problem with. LOD reflects the load order at generation time, if the load order changed, generate LOD again. If console/script directly disables references without using enable parents that won't be reflected in LOD.

[Oynlen]

Hi again Sheson, hope you are still active here. I been using the tool and its been fine, after my initial learning curve and many questions. But recently, I have tried to create coupe of new flat LODs for trees I got working from Skyrim resource pack and add them to Fallout 4. I have always made my flat lods using gamer poets video tutorial but these recent once are getting the white outline, as if AA has been left ON in nifskope. Do you think new Nvidia drivers could be causing this? its frustrating coz its a like 3 step prcess before you can even see if your billboard capture has the white line when applied to the nif, so trial and error is taking some time. 

Windows 10 recently updated too and I notice if HDR setting is on, simple screenshots coume out looking over high in contrast. So that is off atm, but will try it with on and try fiddling with AA setting in Nvidia control panel too. Just wondering if anyone else has reported this or you have an answer that might save my time and sanity. Thanks.