Cathedral - 3D Thistle (by Dr Jacopo)

[DoubleYou]

Discussion topic:
Cathedral - 3D Thistle by Dr Jacopo
Wiki Link

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[TechAngel85]

I saw this and thought it looked great. Much more realistic! These grew along the roads where I used to work and they look much more like this than what vanilla is.

[Eliian]

Seems nice! The scourge of my backyard.

 

[Eliian]

A quick compare

Vanilla>STEP (Hybrid's HD Plants) > Cathedral 3D Thistle

Edited May 18, 2022 by Eliian
Added Vanilla compares

[DoubleYou]

That looks a lot better to me! 

[Eliian]

While I do like the way this looks in game, I am conflicted if it deviates from vanilla. The vanilla thistle tends to look more like some European plants called thistle such as:

Thistle is more of a common name plant wise. Variation in leaves is quite vast besides generally having similar looking flowers and the presence of bristles/spines on the leaves/ stems. 

[ButchDiavolo]

It does look good, but when deviating from Vanilla+ ... *whispers* "Mari's Flora looks better"...

[z929669]

I agree that thistle varies quite a bit. There are many species. Focus on only the North American variety with pink flowers and see which one vanilla is trying to mimic. If you include the vanilla compare as first shot in your screens above, that would help.

[Eliian]

Added some vanilla compares. Hybrids adds some definition/shape to the leaves. It mainly improves the flowers nicely over vanilla. 

I am ok with using 3d Thistle even if it may deviate. The model and texture are much better and blend in well.

There are many varieties in North America too. 

Some Thistle has the leaf pattern close to the stem. The leaves themselves do not extend far out. This seems to be what bethesda was going for in vanilla.

Wavy Leaf Thistle>Canadian Thistle

Others have leaves similar to what 3d thistle was going for. The leaves are broader and extend out from the stems more

California Thistle>Indian Thistle

Edited May 18, 2022 by Eliian

[TechAngel85]

11 hours ago, ButchDiavolo said:

It does look good, but when deviating from Vanilla+ ... *whispers* "Mari's Flora looks better"...

We've tested all of Mari's stuff individually and none of them were accepted due to simply not fitting in well with the lighting and coloring not fitting into the landscape very well. Many were far darker than they should have been. Mari's stuff seem to be geared toward a specific style, which doesn't match well with the SE Guide.

As for the deviation, there are too many types of RL thistle to completely narrow it down (vanilla looks most like the Cali thistle, imo). It's probably just going to be another case of deviation along with the other things we have that deviate. Usually these are things that are terrible enough in vanilla that some deviation is acceptable, assuming the votes are there to override such deviation.

[z929669]

Hybrid's (Step) seems to be a better vanilla replacement than this mod. Hybrid's flowers look great, but the leaf retex is in need of upscale and possibly UV remap. It does mimic the Wavy leaf Thistle best though, which I agree is what vanilla is going for.

[DoubleYou]

I don't consider this as deviating significantly from vanilla, and I would vote to accept this as a significant improvement. The vanilla leaf details are of such low resolution that it would be impossible to determine how it "should" look.

[DoubleYou]

Additional compare, as I found that we have neglected the Cathedral Plants version:

Vanilla --> Cathedral Plants --> Hybrid's HD Plants --> Cathedral - 3D Thistle

[z929669]

Thanks for the screens. It's obvious to me now that Hybrids uses the vanilla texture for the leaves. It doesn't even look upscaled. Probably a slightly better normal though. I still think Hybrid's the best replacer for vanilla, due to the flowers. This mod's leaves are an entirely different thistle variety, and vanilla does accurately represent the actual plant they must've been using as a reference. It just needs an upscale or a leaf retex is all.

[z929669]

4 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

I don't consider this as deviating significantly from vanilla, and I would vote to accept this as a significant improvement. The vanilla leaf details are of such low resolution that it would be impossible to determine how it "should" look.

Agree that this mod isn't a significant deviation from vanilla. I prefer Hybrid's, but not strongly.