ACCEPTED Ambiance - A Vanilla(plus) Ambient Lighting Overhaul (by TheMilesO)

[z929669]

1 hour ago, TechAngel85 said:

I think there is some misunderstanding with the color plugin. If we drop Luminosity, the color plugin should probably be added. Else you're going to have vanilla colors for everything, which is a mess and inconsistent. Luminosity currently provides Step's light colors. Before that, it was ELE. We've never used vanilla light colors.

Good point. I just noticed that while looking at the plugins.

I have to say that I think Luminosity looks best in most Eliian's shots. Fire is way too orange with Ambiance, and I'm seeing it's too yellow if I use the yellow/orange option in EmbersXD.

I am prepping some shots now using latest patch.

[Eliian]

29 minutes ago, z929669 said:

 

t's too yellow if I use the yellow/orange option in EmbersXD.

 

I was wondering that myself. Good to know! I also dislike the very orange fires/torches.

[z929669]

Compares are Step 2.1.0 DEV using respective latest L&W patches and NO ENB or post-processing mods. All shots are identical but for the lighting-overhaul used (Step 2.0.0 otherwise).

1. Vanilla (Step [CW, RS]) >>
2. Step (Luminosity, CW, RS)  >> 
3. Ambiance (replaces Luminosity) + EmbersXD with Yellow/Orange option (Orange/Red option is waay too red)  >> 
4. #3 with tweaks to "Ambiance.esp" Image Space (lower saturation/bloom) and "Ambiance - Light Colors.esp" Light (slightly increased red rgb)

 

 

Blackreach is a special case:

1. Vanilla (Step [CW, RS]) >>
2. Step  (Luminosity, CW, RS) >>
3. Ambiance colors & fog distance, CW image Space  >>
4. Ambiance colors, CW fog distance & image Space  >>
5. pure Ambiance (replaces CW weather entirely)

 

PS: I was wrong about yellow/orange option not working with EnbersXD/Ambiance. I had accidentally tested with BOTH Ambiance and Luminosity active in my LO, which washed out the yellow fires.

[TechAngel85]

The white light in your shots is coming from LoS. It's light color would need to be changed to match the lantern color for whatever mod is chosen.

[z929669]

18 hours ago, TechAngel85 said:

The white light in your shots is coming from LoS. It's light color would need to be changed to match the lantern color for whatever mod is chosen.

Yeah, that override is present in the patch, but evidently not enough yellow:

That's Ambiance torch light. Will tweak a bit and see.

[z929669]

Fixed lantern light and replaced those in the compare.

[z929669]

Any opinions on Ambiance? See Screenshots linked in OP. I think it's a great lighting solution. I think it beats Luminosity in some cases (Riverwood/Solitude interiors) but not in others (Whiterun interiors). Overall, it's better compatibility with RAID is the seller for me. It's also more true to vanilla but with RS, it fixes most of the vanilla lighting issues.

I also prefer the "Ambiance colors, CW fog distance & image spaces" patching method for Blackreach after running around in there under the different scenarios.

I vote to accept Ambiance.

---

Added a third compare to the set. This is a tweak to the Ambiance Light Colors module in the Step L/W patch. Adds a dash of saturation and red where needed. Ambiance is just a bit too yellow and in some cases a bit too desatureated. I think this adds a bit of realism and shouldn't impact anything but color temp.

[z929669]

Screens updated (link in OP)

[DoubleYou]

I honestly prefer Luminosity in all these shots. Are all things equal in this compare? I thought it only changed the color of lighting, but it seems to affect way more than that. The fire especially looks cartoonish. It doesn't have the refined look Luminosity has. I don't know how to describe it. 

[z929669]

56 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

I honestly prefer Luminosity in all these shots. Are all things equal in this compare? I thought it only changed the color of lighting, but it seems to affect way more than that. The fire especially looks cartoonish. It doesn't have the refined look Luminosity has. I don't know how to describe it. 

All things are equal but for Luminosity vs Ambiance. Identical saves. Luminosity touches way more records than Ambiance, which is really just an enhancement to vanilla lighting. The third shots are just my tweaks to "Ambiance - Light Colors.esp" Light RGB values, as I find Ambiance to be a bit flat otherwise.

What I like about Luminosity: Rich, warm colors that look more consistent in any given scene. It's a well-developed lighting mod.

What I like about Ambiance: Higher contrast and lighting variation in most scenes ... Breezehome in the day is more realistic with the daylight cool lighting way from the fire (same for Dragonsreach). Luminosity is more consistent but is more reminiscent of what I'd expect at night with no daylight interference from the windows ... it's about 9:30 AM in that shot. However, this same look is likely what you would see at night with Ambiance ... I still prefer the variation though.

It's more clear to me now why Ambiance will work better with RAID: it honors the light sources a little better without giving one a fake sense of security (or lack thereof), so a shadowed area is more likely to be interpreted as such by the game mechanics with Ambiance than with Luminosity (which considers only aesthetic without regard for realism, IMO).

As described in the compares, Ambiance requires EmbersXD yellow/orange option (all else being equal). Otherwise, the fires are way too red/orange and washed out. I think the Ambiance fires look pretty good myself. I do see your point though: They are too saturated in Ambiance and washed out ... EXCEPT for in the Fletcher shot, where Ambiance looks good and Luminosity is too washed out. I think it's just a matter of the lighting templates used by Ambiance in many of the cells edited ... @TechAngel85 is this the case? I would like to 'fix' the fire in Ambiance to be a bit more transparent ... that's the issue.

[z929669]

@DoubleYou I lowered the saturation a bit in the Ambiance Image Space records. This seems to fix fires in interiors, which seems to be how Luminosity does it. I think the lower sat also looks better with the altered color temps (see last image in each set above). Not sure how to address exteriors though. I don't want to mess with CW image Space records, so need to find how Luminosity handles those.

PS: Saturation should have no impact on RAID mechanics.

[TechAngel85]

1 hour ago, z929669 said:

It's more clear to me now why Ambiance will work better with RAID: it honors the light sources a little better without giving one a fake sense of security (or lack thereof), so a shadowed area is more likely to be interpreted as such by the game mechanics with Ambiance than with Luminosity (which considers only aesthetic without regard for realism, IMO).

As described in the compares, Ambiance requires EmbersXD yellow/orange option (all else being equal). Otherwise, the fires are way too red/orange and washed out. I think the Ambiance fires look pretty good myself. I do see your point though: They are too saturated in Ambiance and washed out ... EXCEPT for in the Fletcher shot, where Ambiance looks good and Luminosity is too washed out. I think it's just a matter of the lighting templates used by Ambiance in many of the cells edited ... @TechAngel85 is this the case? I would like to 'fix' the fire in Ambiance to be a bit more transparent ... that's the issue.

You are right on the money about Luminosity strictly going for looks. They didn't really consider the gameplay mechanics when developing. What Luminosity does is compensate for the lack of realistic light bounce/casting from the sources by using the lighting templates to mimic a dimly lit room. This way even if there is not light actually hitting an area it will still be slight lit. This is a bit of a cheap (albeit clever) way to mimic what ray-casting would do with the light bounce. Therefore, if you remove all the lights from an interior with Luminosity, it will still be dimly lit from the Lighting Template alone. This just so happens to be the very thing that causes it be behave so badly with AI detection.

As for the fires...that is probably something in the image spaces, but honestly, I am not really sure. I would check out the brightness and bloom. Both are higher in Ambience.

[z929669]

22 minutes ago, TechAngel85 said:

You are right on the money about Luminosity strictly going for looks. They didn't really consider the gameplay mechanics when developing. What Luminosity does is compensate for the lack of realistic light bounce/casting from the sources by using the lighting templates to mimic a dimly lit room. This way even if there is not light actually hitting an area it will still be slight lit. This is a bit of a cheap (albeit clever) way to mimic what ray-casting would do with the light bounce. Therefore, if you remove all the lights from an interior with Luminosity, it will still be dimly lit from the Lighting Template alone. This just so happens to be the very thing that causes it be behave so badly with AI detection.

As for the fires...that is probably something in the image spaces, but honestly, I am not really sure. I would check out the brightness and bloom. Both are higher in Ambience.

Saturation helped, but I forgot about bloom. That will definitely help if it's still too washed out. What would address exteriors outside of Weather records? Luminosity achieves this somehow ourside of Weather.

[TechAngel85]

23 minutes ago, z929669 said:

Saturation helped, but I forgot about bloom. That will definitely help if it's still too washed out. What would address exteriors outside of Weather records? Luminosity achieves this somehow ourside of Weather.

Yes, it would if changed for the exterior image spaces too.

Those lower saturation shots look much better.

[z929669]

Compares updated in post linked from OP. Simplified.

Still not sure how to impact exterior fire transparency/saturation/bloom, but it's not as bad as interiors were.