Hitting earlier mod limit of 144

[Spacebadger]

So unlike what I expected, as soon as a activate a 144th plugin (any plugin) i begin to get major problems. I cant use the escape key, I get missing mesh warnings on npc weapons and armors, bullet holes from IMPACT become grey squares, blood splatters become red squares, and all items in the inventory become blue/grey squares. I have no Idea why this is happening, I still have 100 to go before im supposed to hit the mod limit. And its not like a normal limit, instead the game just begins to break down instead of instantly crashing. I've only found 1 forum post on google that talked about this problem and they didnt have a solution other that massive merging-https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/137862-mod-limit/

I got as far as the weapons section of the clear and present danger guide before hitting this, and I have no clue what to do

load order provided

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  0  0     Fallout3.esm

  1  1     Anchorage.esm

  2  2     ThePitt.esm

  3  3     StreetLights.esm

  4  4     BrokenSteel.esm

  5  5     PointLookout.esm

  6  6     Zeta.esm

  7  7     Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm

  8  8     CALIBR.esm

  9  9     Advanced Recon Tech.esm

 10  a     Inventory Access.esm

 11  b     aHUD.esm

 12  c     iHUD.esm

 13  d     Point Lookout Reborn.esm

 14  e     ArefuExpandedByAzar.esm

 15  f     DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esm

 16 10     AWorldOfPainFO3.esm

 17 11     Mothership Crew.esm

 18 12     Vault 101 Revisited.esm

 19 13     RiversideCafe.esm

 20 14     CRAFT.esm

 21 15     FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm

 22 16     Project Beauty.esm

 23 17     EVE.esm

 24 18     Detect Traps.esm

 25 19     GeorgetownExpansion.esm

 26 1a     tubrrCompound.esm

 27 1b     Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm

 28 1c     Xepha's Dynamic Weather.esm

 29 1d     DarNifiedUIF3.esp

 30 1e     FO3LODGen.esp

 31 1f     Advanced Recon Tech - Detect Traps.esp

 32 20     Detect Traps - DLC.esp

 33 21     Detect Traps - Perk.esp

 34 22     MetroCars.esp

 35 23     DC Moods.esp

 36 24     FortIndependenceRedesigned.esp

 37 25     ArlingtonRestoration.esp

 38 26     tubRRCompound.esp

 39 27     DCStreet - BS.esp

 40 28     Realistic Interior Lighting.esp

 41 29     MoreMapMarkers.esp

 42 2a     Rivet City Realignment.esp

 43 2b     FO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).esp

 44 2c     Temple of the Union Overhaul.esp

 45 2d     The Mantis Imperative - Jello.esp

 46 2e     HeirApparent.esp

 47 2f     Another Interior Mod.esp

 48 30     Laurens_Bathroom_poetry_V1.esp

 49 31     The Mantis Imperative - Mantis.esp

 50 32     FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp

 51 33     DCInt_ARoomWithAView.esp

 52 34     PLweightadjust.esp

 53 35     ChopShopModv13.esp

 54 36     The  Pitt Moods.esp

           DIFF WMK.esp

 55 37     DIFF.esp

 56 38     FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp

 57 39     PointLookout Moods.esp

 58 3a     FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp

 59 3b     lexx_brahmin-variant-Fo3.esp

 60 3c     NotSoFast.esp

 61 3d     BaileysCrossingMetro.esp

 62 3e     K9BreedsMoreDogs.esp

 63 3f     UrgeWashingtonBoS.esp

 64 40     Advanced Recon Gear.esp

 65 41     Detect Traps - The Traponator 4000.esp

 66 42     IMPACT.esp

 67 43     dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp

 68 44     FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers (automatics only).esp

 69 45     FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp

 70 46     Powered Power Armor.esp

 71 47     FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp

 72 48     FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp

 73 49     Advanced Recon Tech FWE.esp

 74 4a     Advanced Recon Tech.esp

 75 4b     Advanced Recon Range Finder.esp

 76 4c     DynamicCrosshair.esp

 77 4d     Stimpak Counter.esp

 78 4e     PPA - Broken Steel.esp

 79 4f     PPA - Operation Anchorage.esp

 80 50     PPA - The Pitt.esp

 81 51     JIP Realistic Weapon Overheating.esp

 82 52     JIP Selective-Fire.esp

 83 53     JIP Companions Command & Control.esp

 84 54     YearlingBooks.esp

 85 55     Confessor Cromwell has a Break_EV.esp

           WeaponModKits - FWE Talon Loot Crash Fix.esp

 86 56     Fo3HirezdMinigun.esp

 87 57     The Mantis Imperative - Nasty Zeta No Scaling.esp

 88 58     PPA - FWE.esp

 89 59     BauPetSupplies.esp

 90 5a     Museum.esp

 91 5b     PotomacSteamworks.esp

 92 5c     CanterburyCommonsInteriors.esp

 93 5d     Monticello Park.esp

 94 5e     Radio Ownership Fix Fixed.esp

 95 5f     AutoGates.esp

 96 60     Boulevard of Broken Dreams.esp

 97 61     IntoTheDeepWoods.esp

 98 62     Existence 2.0.esp

 99 63     House.esp

100 64     RockopolisRebuilt.esp

101 65     FWEAlienWorkBenchFix.esp

102 66     Safe - Safe Regulator HQ.esp

103 67     CouncilSeatFix.esp

104 68     ArefuExpandedByAzar-Radio.esp

105 69     HZSmoothLight - FO3.esp

106 6a     megalight.esp

107 6b     Enhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.esp

108 6c     Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Green Tint Remover.esp

109 6d     Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Dynamic Sneak Bonus.esp

110 6e     Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Rain.esp

111 6f     Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Sandstorms.esp

112 70     Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Weather Machine (Start Game Added).esp

113 71     krzymar-MoonSize_120%.esp

114 72     MTCBigTownRobotFix.esp

115 73     Purity Crash Fix.esp

116 74     Better RC Church.esp

           Mart's Mutant Mod - DC Interiors.esp

117 75     DCRWAV-FWE Patch.esp

118 76     MegatonClinicRefurb.esp

119 77     Flora Overhaul.esp

120 78     DIM TYPE3clothesRETAIL.esp

121 79     K9Breeds.esp

122 7a     K9BreedsPatchDLCPitt.esp

123 7b     FeralGhoulTest.esp

           GlowingGhouls-MMM.esp

124 7c     AnimatedFanV2f3.esp

125 7d     RagdollOverhaulFo3.esp

126 7e     PPA - Mothership Zeta.esp

127 7f     PLFewerItems.esp

128 80     Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Main + DLC Merged.esp

129 81     Lookout Outfits.esp

130 82     T3_leather armors.esp

131 83     Tattered_suits.esp

132 84     Freebooter_Armor.esp

133 85     FO3NeckChains.esp

134 86     bzFatigues.esp

135 87     bzJocks.esp

136 88     Scout Outfits.esp

137 89     Merc Adventurer Armor - eng.esp

138 8a     Merc Adventurer Armor - rus.esp

139 8b     Real Radiation Suit FO3.esp

Edited January 29, 2018 by GrantSP
Added spoiler tags

[Spacebadger]

any additional mod (ie active mods hits 140) causes problems

[baronaatista]

Fallout 3 & New Vegas have a limit of 155 mods. I’ve heard there can be problems when approaching said limit. Try to merge some mods maybe and see what happens.

[GrantSP]

Not sure what else you were expecting. That's a pretty clear indicator of hitting the plugin limit. Some users see it earlier, ~120 plugins, but most never get past 140.

[Spacebadger]

It was just that with bethesda games I'm used to the 255 limit, and the clear and present danger guide also talks about the 255 limit. I've never encountered a game that had an earlier limit. I really wish clear and present danger had a merge guide up, because it's kind of disappointing that I cant follow the entire guide

Edited January 29, 2018 by Spacebadger

[baronaatista]

Hmmm... Kelmych is saying in the guide that the limit for Fallout 3 is in fact 255, and it's only New Vegas that is 155.  Quick search had a couple other sources saying the same.  I'm also pretty certain Kelmych would not construct a guide that exceeds said limits.  It's possible your problem is something else?  Though the symptoms do sound quite a lot like hitting a limit to me.

 

That thread you linked has many people talking about the limit being 255, but many other users complaining about issues past 140 as well.  Don't know what's right here.

Also suggested on the thread it could be a memory issue - are you certain your game is properly LAA enabled?  I also know there has been some issues with NVSR and the Win10 Creators Update, not sure if the same is true for Fallout Stutter Remover.

 

You're certain activating any plugin past 140 causes the same issues?  Is your loadout stable and functioning properly prior to said limit?

[Spacebadger]

before hitting limit, only noticeable problem was movement glitch in birth cut scene in beginning of game. problms begin immediatly after adding 144th mod, whether it be an armor replaces, or a weapon mod, etc. LAA is enabled, but I'll check my memory consumption

 

EDIT- if 144th mod (its actually exactly 140 plugins) is a save manager, same problems, mod type doesn't matter at all, just mod count

edit-2: Its not Fallout stutter remover or NVAC, I disabled those two and enabled two others and had the same problem

Edited January 30, 2018 by Spacebadger

[GrantSP]

Hmm... the guide does indeed mention the upper-most limit of the game engine. That should probably be changed.

 

The thing to keep in mind with this is, it is only talking about plugins, ie. *.esm/esp files. MO's modlist in the left hand pane contains many mods that do not contribute to the limit, such as  Fallout Stuuter Remover or NVAC. Those mods contain no plugins.

 

Additionally the actual number of plugins is not fixed due to the fact it most likely a memory allocation issue. This means you could have 255 very small plugins with only a few records and not see a problem or a few very large plugins with 100's of 1000's of records and reach that limit. The actual triggering is not fully documented.

[Spacebadger]

Okay, I got to 140 plugins enabled after I disabled FWE and mods that required it, and the problem is now gone. Now to find out what about FWE is doing it

[Spacebadger]

so it seems to have nothing to do with a memory problem, not passing 2gb in either ram or vram

[GrantSP]

There is nothing inherently wrong with FWE and the fact that you are now not crashing once it is disabled is an example or correlation, not causation.

It is a memory allocation problem, not a memory usage problem. Two very different things. The engine itself can only register a certain number of records in RAM and even with the LAA seitch enabled it does not mean it is miraculously able to use all system RAM, it is a very old game.

[Spacebadger]

so even with every FWE plugin disabled, its coming from the FWE main esm file

[Spacebadger]

And its not from a conflict with WMK or RH ironsights, its just seems that FWE breaks when the plugin count hits a certain number

found a couple other posts talking about similar problems, but none of them had a solution

 

also, the things with missing meshes are things like axes and pool cues, which FWE doesn't even touch

 

edit- sorry grant, I just saw your post- thats what I thought it would be, too, but then I disabled it and I was able to push the plugin count higher. And if what you mentioned was a major problem, then the it would be impossible to install Clear and Present Danger

Edited January 30, 2018 by Spacebadger

[GrantSP]

Exactly. FWE has been in use for years and that guide includes it with no issue. I'm not saying it's perfect, it does have some minor quirks and some other problems. The FWE team did a great job overall but like every major mod there were/are some bugs.

[Spacebadger]

Do you have a load order I can manually apply? I’ve seen people in this forum with the same 140 mod problem, and one guy fixed it with a load order change. LOOT isn’t fixing it, so I’ll just have to do it manually

Notably this guy https://forum.step-project.com/topic/12693-esc-menu-containers-not-working/

[GrantSP]

LOOT isn't really designed for FO3. It may provide an order that works optimally but it may also provide a working order different to the first one that doesn't work quite as well.

 

Why don't you post your modlist and plugin list in spoiler tags here and let us see if we can manually adjust things.