Kuldebar

That's an excellent process you have laid out, I'll use those steps prior to my next play through. I always run a test before actually playing. I have a clean save with only official files (not even USP stuff).

And you illustrate the problem perfectly. You may not care how your car works if it gets you from point A to point B...but what about the time when it doesn't? When I started a new game with a load order made by the latest release of LOOT and I CTD'd consistently on launch. How could I possibly begin to figure out why? All previous "logic" is thrown out the window...I can not reconcile what I know of a sensible, proven/known good load order and what LOOT produces. I don't have any problem at all letting LOOT do all the work...but when there's a problem, the human is left holding the bag. I did do the only thing that I know has worked for me consistently: I used BOSS. Thus by having a saved BOSS loadorder.txt from Mod Organizer on hand, I was able to load up without a hitch and my character is level 49 at present.

Got to hand it to Arthmoor, he gave you a pretty good response. Is he characterizing the test scenario correctly:

Minimal ENB by ewi65 Yes, I have already expressed my undying love for Seasons of Skyrim, but monogamy is so very boring when it comes to ENB Presets! Always looking for looks and performance (ahem) I tried out Minimal ENB by EWI65...and he delivers on his expressed ambition: I still disable DoF and get even better FPS. He recommends using his preset with Natural Lighting and Atmospherics for ENB (the ESP file only, derp) and also Enhanced Light and FX. Well, he ain't the boss of me, so I don't use the NLA or ELFX. I am having good results with: RelightingSkyrim-FULL.esp ELE Plugin - RS Light Color.esp ELE-FX Emittance.esp I also swap out the ENB palette with Seasons "golden" version...and disable those silly black bars. The shaders folder that comes with the preset install nice with Mod Organizer, just zip the data with the nested shaders folder up and install via MO. Anyway. I am liking the results very much. Here's how it looks in my game:

Looks like you aren't alone in having an issue with the latest RYL...but it's not a universal problem because the mod is working for many others. I'm sure Arthmoor will relook at things and perhaps find the flaw which is breaking it for some players who have some element in their mod configurations that trigger the issue. Did you post the video on the mod page for Arthmoor? Be warned...he distrusts Mod Organizer in a rather luddite-like manner.

Question: What's the Mod Organizer Warning you have? It's not telling you to move any files in the left-side window is it? Example: Yes, no debate that you are getting bad results with RYL (basically you are getting identical to vanilla NPC behavior) and it does not correlate with my own experience using the latest RYL in a new game (one in which I am almost level 50 now and have had a number of dragon encounters in towns and villages.) One point of curiosity: I don't run my game from the Skyrim/Steam Launcher I use the SKSE shortcut in Mod Organizer myself: "C:Mod OrganizerModOrganizer.exe" "F:/Steam/steamapps/common/Skyrim/skse_loader.exe" ...it's not supposed to make a difference but I have had issues with the launcher overriding my mods and mod order in the past and so stopped using it altogether.

In your otherwise excellent post, what "paranoia" are you referring to? The whole issue that users in this forum topic revolves around the problem of what to do when LOOT is wrong or when and if you need to override it. There's simply no real way to know this because LOOT is a magic box that users can't readily look into. Yes, it's exceptionally great that LOOT looks at real data and not the humanly-fallible volunteer data that BOSS used. I recall the days of ripping my CD's to MP3's and using the CDDB to fill in the title, artist and track info...it wasn't perfect, but I could edit/revise any errors I noticed and resubmit the album information. If enough people agreed with my edit...it would gain a higher placement in the growing database. As an error checking mechanism, it worked rather well if the sampling rate was high enough over time. My point is that, when you take away that and replace it with an automated system that scans encoded data burned into the record...well it's mostly hands off for the user. Not every way from the standpoint of users who like to have a modicum of understanding and responsibility over their data. The black-box represents the sea-change that's been occurring in technology over the last three decades. It's the reason Joe the Mechanic down the street can't fix your new fangled computerized car or when your microwave oven stops working you don't take it in for repairs...you just buy another one. Yes, LOOT is the future, blah, blah. I said as much already in my earlier posts here, but in order for LOOT to get a less grudging acceptance it needs to remind itself that thinking sentient beings play games and sit in front of computers. They (usually) like comprehending things. This is the same reason doctors usually try to explain the surgery they are to perform on their patients... After all history has examples of "superior" losing out to the mere acceptable.

I just realized that I have no idea how Deadly Dragons adds its brand of specific NPC protection...it may very well use a method that doesn't alter the NPC record directly?

Not a bad suggestion, but I think editing particular NPC records to flag them protected is a little more invasive with a greater potential for conflict then attaching a script to modify general AI NPC Class behavior. Scripts, in many respects can be like "free agents" leaving the individual record untouched and thus not compromising compatibility in most cases. Consider how script-based mods like EFF, iNeeds (refill water) and Immersive Armors (to a lesser degree) modify NPC's without editing the actual NPC record.

/ok RYL isn't ruining my gameplay and NPC's aren't being roasted by dragons in alarming numbers (only guards actually) and I'm level 47 in this play through with over 20+ dragon souls so far, NPC's do indeed go indoors with the caveats as described by Arthmoor. ...I use Belly Aches New Dragon Species as well. As for reading your posts, Oqhansoloqo -I have and I politely told you that you were shooting in the dark... In your trouble-shooting efforts of your RYL issue: You stopped using Mod Organizer... You uninstalled your ENB You uninstalled SSME You uninstalled SKSE You ditched your SMAA You went to great lengths to "test" a single non-standard dragon attack...at Pelagia Farms of all places...no Inns there and I'm not entirely certain it would be covered by RYL scripts. Some of Arthmoor's compatibility notes and useful information: So, no the mod isn't perfect, but if you don't use it (or another mod that has a something similar as an aim) ...then NPC's will die from dragon attacks far more often. Unlike When Vampires Attack, RYL is functioning as intended in my mod build. Obviously, with scripts, the interaction with other scripted mods along with Papyrus temperament, left side MO order placement,...your mileage may vary. Of course, like any mod, if you don't like it, don't use it.

RYL is working for me as much as I expect it to...do all NPC's always walk lockstep to shelter during a dragon attack...probably not, I don't take an accounting of them... But, most do take shelter, yes...I've seen it...because they pour out of the buildings when I kill the dragon...at Kynesgrove, Riverwood and Falkreath, for example. papyrus can only do so much...there is a plus and minus delineation to these things. I'm level 46 and I've been using RYL for the whole game so far and the games before this one. The mod works fine for me and I've never had an issue. If NPC's aren't responding correctly than you either have a mod conflict or too many NPC's are being added by mods and the AI is stalling. I use the whole "Populated Series and Travellers of Skyrim and all of Immersive Partrols and ETaC...so if the odd NPC fails to run..I just don't worry too much, but I have to say I haven't noticed a problem. When I fight dragons I only have to look out for guards and other excluded type NPC's. Usually it's just me fighting. As soon as that dragon dies though, 6-15 NPC's start gathering up around the bones.

And you spawned how many other dragons in how many other areas with NPC's? As I said, you need a baseline and a good sample of behavior. Even in your posted example of RYL "not working" -it was actually working according to the mod's description of the parameters of its scripted behavior: Also, you haven't made any weird Papyrus Tweaks have you? That's the only other thing that could conceivably cause scripts to fire incorrectly in a clean test...which to be honest...doesn't appears to be the case...based on your given example. Chart more behavior...not enough information at present.

Yes, the latest version of RYL I just caught some of your trouble-shooting posts...you are shooting in the dark. If you use Mod Organizer (and if you don't you are shooting yourself in the foot, as well as the dark!) here's my suggestion: Just run the game from the Skyrim Launcher with only the Bethesda Files (no MO, no SKSE, just official game files -the ENB matters not in the least, leave it be) installed AND RYL placed in the DATA folder. That will be a true test and provide a baseline for proper mod behavior. Now CoC around to towns and villages and spawn dragons for testing...see what there is to see. With your full mod build you will not realize you have a scripting conflict unless in the unlikely chance that a script uses the same name as another and then one will simply replace the other. So begin a process of elimination, don't waste time on mods that don't use scripts in them. For example, my current mod build has over 2200 scripts installed:

I'm pretty sure the RYL Script will activate during any Dragon attack where NPC's are present, based on Arthmoor's description and what I have seen in game: If there's no interior nearby, the NPC's run and cower at a distance also the patch notes refer to wilderness scripting behavior. Unlike When Vampires Attack*, I'm persuaded to believe that RYL is functioning as intended in my mod build. Obviously, with scripts, the interaction with other scripted mods...your mileage will vary. *WVA is inherently flawed because vampire attacks have more variables then dragon attacks: number of attackers, locations, number of NPC's, behavior of vampires (flee, hide, indoors)

ETaC is the core of my game, with mods that add NPC's it really makes Skyrim seem closer to real and not a façade. I've been using the complete No Inns version...TBH, I would have used the Inns except that some firepits were moved to the side of the Inn and that completely ruined it for me...those big firepits would have to be centered and not parallel to a wood timbered wall...I also like my inn interiors to be smoky and sooty...as they would be in real life.

Left side pane of MO...get to moving those as instructed!

MO does have a "txt" list...under profiles folder in MO folder...it has all the good info there in tidy little text files: I always make sure I back-up loadorder.txt somewhere else as a safeguard if BOSS or WRYEBash screws things up... EDIT: disregard...I was responding to an ancient post from 2012. O.o

OK, just asking for some general advice on where to look for the problem. Here's a screenshot that illustrates the glitch, it only impacts two vendors in the custom town of Aurora Village by Scarla. Now, I use bash patches for leveled lists, etc. So my first thought that something went awry with that...but redoing the patch changed nothing...but I'm guessing it wouldn't change until the merchant refreshed. My other guess is that Scarla left something behind from when she built the mod in the creation kit.

I've never used WryeBash to install mods, but I definitely use it for bash patching and to identify other problems. I recall trying out BAIN once but found it difficult to use...and LOOT still remains a mystery to me (can't reconcile/understand some of things it does with my load order) but I look forward to using it some day when it is a little less enigmatic and perhaps less of a "black-box".

I run 2k Textures and my GPU only has 1GB VRAM...so yes, easily. SMiM Installer is great but other texture mods may not be compatible with SMiM depending on the reference path for the mesh. It might seem a little tough to start over but if you stick it out it will pay off. I switched to MO, ENBoost and SSME and my game problems just went away but it took me awhile to get a handle on how to configure various settings, etc. Mod Organizer is simply indispensable, I can't believe I went as long I did without it. Mods can still cause issues of course, but MO makes isolating issues a lot easier. And then there's STEP recommendations that come into play by helping reduce the chance that poorly conceived mods could ruin your Skyrim day. Even if you don't use STEP listed mods, the information and best practices approach that STEP advocates can help you nail down a solid mod build.

Easy way to test if modded textures are swamping your GPU, just uncheck them in Mod Organizer and load up the game to see if anything changes. Did this just start happening out of the blue or in a specific (new) area you arrived at in game? Other possibilities include a bad SMiM/parallax/custom mesh installation... I use ENBoost and SSME...so can't comment on RCRN. But on the rare occasions I have had a black texture it was VRAM related. I could usually clear it on reload and it would normally just be my character's face that was black; this no longer occurs because I have optimized my ENBlocal settings. The purple/violet usually means you are missing a texture...texture-mesh path error. Also, there's been some game engine bugs that can cause this...but that was before the last official patch I believe.

Helgen Intro is an exceptionally high script scenario...mods initializing, the quest scripts firing off, lots of environmental activators, etc. Nice to hear it settled down for you. Some related discussions: Do NOT disable vSync!

Yup, this happened to me just now...I have 700+ save games...Wyre Bash craps out on Bash Build and wipes load order in MO. Just because I never really thought about needing to delete saves...until now.

It explains why after running with compression turned off my VRAM usage is at normal levels. Initially, in the first short test runs I did, it looked like usage was higher...but that's a very situational thing in Skyrim dependent on location and other factors. I've been running without compression for a while now and can say there's been no negative impact on stability or VRAM usage on my system. I can't remember for sure, but one of the better known ENB Preset authors recommended compression disabled for smoother game play, embarrassingly, I've forgotten who that was...

No reason I can think of...does disable still work on other things just not this same dragon corpse? It could be a save corruption that has things fouled perhaps... ...markfordelete is safe to use if you are sure the specific object is something you no longer need in the current game, in this case an empty dragon corpse which is assigned a specific id: - https://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Form_ID The dragon corpse is FF... Also markfordelete is better then disable because it doesn't bloat your save file whereas disable will simply make an object "invisible" the data for it will still be loaded and retained in your save. I have started using markfordelete because the next time I load the cell the dragon will be gone without me "magically" making it go poof. But you can also mfd and then disable the object which should have a (d) signifying it has been mfd flagged. Only had one stalking dragon corpse this play through (level 39)...Whiterun.