TechAngel85

Seriously excited about this game and that doesn't happen often!

I smell a party pooper... haha! All joking aside, you are correct in several of those statements. I'll just leave it at that. Pretty much everyone has already spoken their peace on this mod, I'm just enjoying the debate. As it stands it's 8 for and 6 against (more staff against than for). I'm not really comfortable deciding for or against on such a close to 50/50 split. I'm starting to think this is one of those mods that we just need to leave out because users are so split on its use. idk...

I can see you're point if you simply read that and nothing else from my post. However, take the rest of my post into context and you would be wrong in your assumptions as I specifically give a few examples of when and how I would compare Skyrim to the real world. It's a balance... "Is that how aspen trees look in our world? Yep, that looks realistic." "Would that supporting beam hold that building up in the real world if built like that? Nope... that's not realistic." "Could mages make windows in Skyrim? Possibly. Is there anything in Skyrim or Lore that supports this? Nope/not to my knowledge. What's the logical conclusion based on real world knowledge? Smiths most likely to manufacture windows as they already have the smelters in place to do so. Is that logic sound? Yep." That is how my brain works when I'm evaluating mods for realism and whether or not they would logically fit into the Skryim realm. Fact of the matter is, there are hundreds of things in the Skyrim realm (plants, animals, buildings, weathers, weapons, etc) that you would find in the real world. You can't discount the real world just like you can't discount the fantasy aspect of Skyrim (magic, dragons, walking dead, etc). Balance!

Love this guy!

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I've already argued such points and provided links to real world proof. Again, have already explained that since windows are used commonly Skyrim would have been advanced enough to make "thin windows" everywhere. Here: https://forum.step-project.com/topic/5066-rustic-windows-by-gamwich/?p=85144 Thin glass was first produced around 300AD folks. The problem I have with the opposition to the "realism" arguments is it ALWAYS...magic. Magic is not the answer to everything. When I think realism for Skyrim, I don't think about our world as much as I think, "what would be 'most likely', for that realm, if it were real." In Skyrim, the only magic users are those that study it (college) or use it for their own gain (necromancers) or mystical creatures. Rarely do you run into an NPC that doesn't fit into one of those three categories. There are no "mage smiths" building materials for the Skyrim world found anywhere in Skryim. So I rule that point out because it doesn't fit unless you "imagine" it to be a possibility. Fact is, there are none of these in Skyrim and no lore points to that conclusion either; therefore, it can be logically ruled out. Find me anywhere in Lore where an everyday object was created by magic for mundane use and I might change my tune on this. As for construction for realism in Skryim, I tend to lean toward England and Scotland....not Roman. "Nothing says that this could not be the case in Skyrim." Nothing says that could be the case in Skyrim either... See what I did there. Haha! Ultimately, think of the "realism" arguments like this... Bethesda artists had to pull their inspirations from somewhere. Unless they are *cough*talented*cough* enough to pull things from their imaginations and apply that to computer graphics, then you can logically deduce (because it's the only thing left after imagination) that the artists used the real world as their muse. From that along, the "realism" argument can be made into a rather valid one. Especially since STEP aims to "improve existing content that increases the consistency of vanilla Skyrim." and provide "content that is consistent with Skyrim and TES lore as established by Bethesda's creators and extrapolated on by the STEP community in accordance with the Imperial Library and the UESP." If the "creator's" inspiration for their content was the real world, then any "realism" argument makes perfect sense, imo.

Exactly. Most don't care about realism around here though. I'm one of the few and it's a hard battle sometimes. :) Realists...band together! Haha!

So it's the mod and not the installer?

The fire/torch fire issue isn't something that will go away. Fortunately, it's not really noticeable unless you're looking for it. @Antronach, Heck no! That atronach rocks with this mod!

This mod is being tested in the AMB thread. Please check there for the compares.

haha! Those was exactly my thoughts as well! Those bottles are far too saturated...but that's another topic.

Discussion thread: Real Wood Textures - Farmhouses by LucidAPs Wiki Link This mod provides "real wood" textures for farmhouses which are available in both a mossy and non-mossy version as well as 2K and 1K.

I could have sworn there was a mod thread for it already. lol

You assume correctly

I enjoyed the "wet" look that Terrain Bump was providing; however, the shiny was too much in the sun. I wouldn't mind seeing this mod's "magic" but with a slightly frosted look. Nothing too white or they'll stand out far too much. You should still be able to see through them or parts of them. Not glass like but a bit cloudy. Similar to this: This is most likely texture territory rather than meshes.

Plus one to that! I did learn a few new things from that short exchange.

Any mod is open for as much debate as the users want to put into them. Just because one person thinks it's a "no-brainer" doesn't mean everyone will feel the same. Besides, both your votes are tallied correctly. I am one of those that don't feel it's right for STEP; Core or Extended. You've got to stop and think that hundreds of people are going to be using it if it's included in STEP (I think we sometimes forget this because only a handful and users get involved in the process). If only a few are interested in it, then it's better suited for personal mod lists, not included in STEP. I'm against this enough that I would consider skipping it in my STEP installed if it were to be added. There is enough change with this mod that it doesn't flow with overall Skyrim design, imo. I PMed Z a couple days ago to toss in his thoughts if he has time. No word yet. The tally is close enough that we might have to wait for his thoughts or exclude the user votes and go with a strictly staff vote as we have had to in the past (sorry, this is nothing against non-staff members but it's one way we resolve things in a tight race or a crunch).

Since my first post, I never gave it a second thought that this would be a Core mod. I knew it wouldn't be. Since my large compare post, we've been discussing for Extended. The tally has been collected for Extended votes. I've ignored Core votes.

That is 4 for the AMB/Real Wood combo. Any complaints? ...besides the door?

Current tally: For (yes): EssArrBee, redirishlord, Kuldebar, phazer11 Against (no): TechAngel, DoubleYou, WilliamImm, Nearox (not for STEP, likes it personally), keithinhanoi (not for STEP, likes it personally)

The patch was for torches. In vanilla the entire torch is transparent for some odd reason so it would make the torch disappear when it got too close to the icicles. The author fixed it by making only the tip of the torch where the fire is transparent. Fire refract is not ticked for any of the ones I just looked at.

Please be aware this mod has one issue which is simply a limitation of the engine. When two transparency layers meet, one suffers. What that means for this mod is that when you view the textures through a fire mesh, the effect of the icicles will be nullified as seen in the picture below: Full Size: https://i.imgur.com/kREtZdL.jpg Here, half of the icicles in the background are being viewed through the fire mesh. You can see the effect if nullified on the right half of the icicles. I honestly, don't think this is a large effect issue to keep the mod from being in STEP. With this new information about the icicle_n.dds file in Terrain Bump (no offense SP), I've voting for this mod to be included in STEP. The option without the normal from TB blends in far better and has changed my mind on this mod. That would be a personal preference as would this mod in general. I've seen both perfectly clear ice icicles and more frosted ones. I do believe it depends on the water purity and the weather. EDIT: To get vanilla, all we have to do is hide the normal from TB. That's what is causing the "banding" in the STEP shots.

Here are the updated shots. The final shot in each set with without the icicle_n.dds from Terrain Bump. This changes the look of the icicles. The atronach and ice wraiths didn't used this normal so they were unaffected by the change. Icicles on roofs: Vanilla >> STEP >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting with Terrain Bump >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting without Terrain Bump Icicles on arches: Vanilla >> STEP >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting with Terrain Bump >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting without Terrain Bump Icicles on roofs 2: Vanilla >> STEP >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting with Terrain Bump >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting without Terrain Bump Icicles on roofs 3: Vanilla >> STEP >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting with Terrain Bump >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting without Terrain Bump Icicles in caves: Vanilla >> STEP >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting with Terrain Bump >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting without Terrain Bump Icicles in caves 2: Vanilla >> STEP >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting with Terrain Bump >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting without Terrain Bump Icicles on ledge (dawn): Vanilla >> STEP >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting with Terrain Bump >> STEP + Transparent & Refracting without Terrain Bump EDIT: Caves seem to be unaffected as well.

That was the point. I was show it went back to a vanilla state.TB is completely rippling the texture. I'm about to repost the shots with and without that normal from TB so everyone can compare.