Mod Installation: Before or after Helgen Tutorial?

[mikegray]

Hey guys!

 

After more than half a year away from Skyrim, I trashed my old Mod Organizer directory and did a complete STEP install from scratch, following the guide meticulously. Time for a brand new start.

 

However, there's one thing I missed:

 

Back when I was modding (and ... occasionally, you know ... playing), installing mods before completion of the Helgen cave tutorial was generally contraindicated. I used to have a "prisoner" savefile parked at the character creation screen and just took it from there. 

 

However, I don't see anything about that in the STEP guide. And as I was reading through Apollo's Civil War Overhaul, I gathered that he wants people using his mod to have it in from the cart ride on. (At least, that's what I THINK he said. With his mods pages, I'm never sure what the *%&@ I'm reading.) 

 

So ... what's the lowdown these days?

[CovertSlinky]

If you are using CWO, like me, you either A, do what he says to do, so your save doesn't self destruct,lol. Or, B, you can use AS-LAL, again, like me. But the bottom line is, CWO requires a new save, as there is important stuff to the civil war that need to be attached to the save at the very beginning, no exceptions. As for Helgen Reborn, it's all good to install it and have the plugin activated but.....DO NOT read the Helgen Reborn book to initiate the quest until after you leave the cave with Ralof or Hadvar, after that, do not follow up on the quest (next step would be to go and see Patsy) until roughly 4 in-game days have passed, but more accurately when the bandits take over Helgen and the spikes with heads are at the front gates as you approach. Hope that helps and happy modding! :)

 

EDIT: LOL, I bombed that question, Just disregard all of my instructions as I officially place a hat on my head with the word dunce :/

Edited August 21, 2014 by CovertSlinky

[mikegray]

Eh.

 

I'm kind of thinking about CWO. I've never actually tried it out, and I'd like to. But I'm also thinking I maybe want to wait for the next stable version ... Or the next one after that!

 

I'm aware that Helgen Reborn has some specific issues. (Sort of makes sense!) That is a mod I would definitely add at a later point in the game - like, after I've defeated the first dragon. (Mirimax, or whatever he's called.)

 

Anyway, I meant CWO as a specific example of a more general question about modding best practices: When should STANDARD mods be added to the game? 

 

My initial understanding was that they should come in after Helgen cave. But it looks like that may not be the case.

Edited August 21, 2014 by mikegray

[Shadriss]

In my experience so far, unless the mod author specifically says to put it in after Helgen, there is no reason you can't have it in from second one. Very few mods that I've had time working with matter either way, honestly. So yeah - unless you have specific instructions, slap'em in and get to playing.

 

DISCLAIMER: Past performance is no indicator of future compatibility. Use of SKYRIM for other than entertainment purposes may cause  (but not be limited to): Lack of free time, addiction to modding, a need to kill reptiles, lack of social life, tearing out of hair due to frustration, serious bodily harm, death of pets, explosion of CPU, or forgetting to eat. DO NOT use SKYRIM as a sleep aid.

[redirishlord]

STEP Core & even STEP Extended mods should be safe for your Helgen intro. I would suggest AS-LAL even if you want to do the Helgen escape, the prison cell character creation is more stable then trying to do it with the intro running & then you can just select "caught crossing the border". 

Regarding Helgen Reborn, you might want to wait to install it (as in check the box in MO's left pane) after you help a certain dog in Falkreath due to navigation issues.

[DoubleYou]

Helgen Reborn is the only mod I know of currently that you should wait until after Helgen to activate.

[mikegray]

Thanks guys!

[Simondererste]

So as a conclusion(maybe a STEP recommendation):

Get a save after Helgen intro and then start modding or use Alternate Start - Live Another Life by Arthmoor.

[Shadriss]

So as a conclusion(maybe a STEP recommendation):

Get a save after Helgen intro and then start modding or use Alternate Start - Live Another Life by Arthmoor.

I'm not sure how you got your conclusion, given the following statements:

 

Helgen Reborn is the only mod I know of currently that you should wait until after Helgen to activate.

 

In my experience so far, unless the mod author specifically says to put it in after Helgen, there is no reason you can't have it in from second one. Very few mods that I've had time working with matter either way, honestly. So yeah - unless you have specific instructions, slap'em in and get to playing.

So, again, for clarity - UNLESS otherwise instructed SPECIFICALLY from the mod author, load'em up PRIOR to starting a new game.

[Simondererste]

*For mod/setup testing do this:

So as a conclusion(maybe a STEP recommendation):

Get a save after Helgen intro and then start modding or use Alternate Start - Live Another Life by Arthmoor.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Simondererste

[mikegray]

I'm not sure how you got your conclusion, given the following statements:

 

 

So, again, for clarity - UNLESS otherwise instructed SPECIFICALLY from the mod author, load'em up PRIOR to starting a new game.

Yup. That's what they said!

 

But, I think it would be a good idea to include this, specifically, in the STEP guide.

[DoubleYou]

Why? The STEP Guide is a guide to installing STEP. It isn't a guide to installing every mod in the universe. Common sense says to read the installation instructions. Some mods, like the Unofficial Patches, require being loaded from the very beginning to allow some of their fixes to be fully affective if I remember correctly. Some mods, like Helgen Reborn, require being loaded after you escape Helgen, as it says in the FAQ. Should we include in the guide that it is important to read the mod author's description?

[mikegray]

Why? The STEP Guide is a guide to installing STEP. It isn't a guide to installing every mod in the universe. Common sense says to read the installation instructions. Some mods, like the Unofficial Patches, require being loaded from the very beginning to allow some of their fixes to be fully affective if I remember correctly. Some mods, like Helgen Reborn, require being loaded after you escape Helgen, as it says in the FAQ. Should we include in the guide that it is important to read the mod author's description?

A general comment or two isn't exactly the same as providing "a guide to installing every mod in the universe." 

 

Now, if mods authors typically gave a recommendation of the sort, there wouldn't be any point in doubling information that is already common knowledge; however, this is actually rare. Moreover, in certain forums, at certain points in time, installing all mods after Helgen really was held to be best practice for modding. Which is why I started the thread in the first place ... People follow STEP because they're looking for someone to walk them through the process of going from a raw installation to a stable, modded game. This information would be helpful.

Edited August 24, 2014 by mikegray

[DoubleYou]

Why was it held to be better to wait until after Helgen in that forum? What's so special about Helgen?

[Simondererste]

I looked in this thread, because i'm trying to get a stable a nice modded Skyrim, that fits my system specs.

So i question myself if it is needed to install and run the game always through the Helgen intro sequence, just to test the mods.

After having an installation that i'm satisfied with i would begin a fresh new game all from the start on. So having mods installed before Helgen is given, for my playthrough.

For testing purposes i will use a save after the intro sequence, because i can start running freely around.

I would guess that this best practice for modding allude to mod testing?

Don't know if putting a hint like: "You can use a save after Helgen intro sequence for testing" is appreciated and would help.