Public Service Announcement: Enhanced Blood Textures CTDs

[Garfink]

I have finally eliminated my final CTD bug with my load-order and it is caused unmistakably by EBT.  I love this mod, it adds so much visceral enjoyment to combat that I stuck with it through thick and thin, but its time to let it go for good.  I'll like to share my experience.

 

I am running a modified extended step/SR/REG load order which on its own is super stable.  I am running some other mods though that might interact with EBT (or not.)  Those extra mods that may interact are:  SkyRe in particular the combat module, also had issues with Duel V5 and V7 in the past, Better Stealth AI, Improved sneak detection, Helmet Toggle, ASIS, Random Encounter, OBIS, Revenge of the Enemies, High Level Enemies, Auto Equip Arrows.  I am using other non-step mods like morrowloot 4E, but I doubt they have anything to do with it.  There are many step mods that are active in combat like footprint, wet and cold and frostfall which are obvious.  I am not saying any of these mods are the culprit, just listing it out here so you have an idea what else is running.

 

I have reproducible (on my load-order) CTDs entering various dungeons which are totally fixed simply by disabling EBT in its MCM menu or uninstalling the mod per instructions provided by EBT.  Once removed I no longer have CTDs that occur "randomly" outdoors also.  Its not really random as it is usually associated with spawn points.  

 

I suspect that with ASIS/Random Encounter/OBIS/Extended Encounters's extra spawns is probably what is causing issues, it is even said in EBT's own MCM menu that to disable the mod in "heavy fighting areas".  Too bad when your whole game is heavy fighting. 

 

I've try decreasing the EBT's script fire rate for NPCs but that doesn't really help.  I think the blood on screen portion is safe but really isn't the juicy part of the mod.

 

So if you are having CTDs and running extra spawn mods, you can try this "fix".

 

[Kuldebar]

Better Blood Splatters by Cristofano Varacolaci + some blood decal tweaks in the ini

 

No muss, no fuss. :)

 

My phear of script heavy mods has kept me away from EBT for a long long time....Papyrus can only do so much then it become poopyrus on your desktop. 

[Garfink]

Thanks for the idea!  I will give it a try tonight.  Do you use footprints/wet-cold then?  I can't live without them unfortunately, with Resplendent Racials, you have wood-elves and argonians sometime going invisible and the footprints are an AWESOME way to detect them!!  (Not that I am having issues with footprints fortunately!)

 

What blood decal tweaks do you use?

Edited April 28, 2014 by Garfink

[Kuldebar]

No footprints/wet & cold for me. I do have script mods, of course...I just try to ration their usage in my mod build. I use SPERG, Convenient Horses and EFF, they use a lot of scripts.

 

I only get two kinds of CTD's these days, and they both are rare:

 

-The "most likely" Papyrus related CTD (example: used "gather wood" from Camping Lite had a non-repeatable CTD)

-The reload on death type CTD (this happens more predictably and can be avoided by simply restarting the client so the game memory clears out)

What blood decal tweaks do you use?

[Decals]

bDecalsOnSkinnedGeometry=1

iMaxDecalsPerFrame=256

uMaxDecals=1000

bDecals=1

bSkinnedDecals=1

uMaxSkinDecals=100

uMaxSkinDecalsPerActor=60

 

It's been a while, but I think I pulled those from the STEP Wiki Ini section.

[Garfink]

You know, I should probably give up on wet and cold, and probably foot prints....

 

Both of these work like EBT really, injecting nearby actors, I will do it in my next CTD.

 

Edit :p

 

Speak of the devil...  I just uninstalled wet and cold.  I may as well undo footprints too.

 

Edit Edit:

 

Did both and haven't had a crash in another 6 hours.  EBT, Footprint and Wet and Cold are a curse, so tempting to install, so much heartbreak.  If it doesn't crash for a week, I will celebrate!

Edited April 28, 2014 by Garfink

[MadWizard25]

I dropped footsteps because if you use ugrids 7 and a lot of spawn mods it becomes very script heavy. It seems to scale with number of NPCs

 

Wet and Cold doesnt seem too bad. Frostfall does pretty much what wet and cold does so if you have it, you can get rid of W&C

 

Im thinking of dropping EBT as well, atm it is by far the most active script I have. Thanks for the replacement Kuldebar!

Edited April 28, 2014 by MadWizard25

[WilliamImm]

No, Frostfall does part of what W&C does. Frostfall does not, for instance, have the dynamic distribution of weather gear that Wet & Cold has. I'd use both together.

[Kuldebar]

MadWizard25, on 28 Apr 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

Im thinking of dropping EBT as well, atm it is by far the most active script I have. Thanks for the replacement Kuldebar!

It's a "poor man's" replacement, just a texture, but it looks good in game with the regular vanilla system (with some decal tweaks) and thus very low cost in performance; of course with no compatibility issues. The decal tweaks help (even without the replacement textures) look a lot by improving the amount, distribution and duration of combat gore to a reasonable level.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Kuldebar

[MadWizard25]

No, Frostfall does part of what W&C does. Frostfall does not, for instance, have the dynamic distribution of weather gear that Wet & Cold has. I'd use both together.

Apologies, I should have been more explicit, by saying "frostfall does pretty much what wet and cold does" I meant it replaces parts of it. Actually my main issue with removing W&C is the loss of Ash and Holidays, both which i quite enjoy.

 

It's a "poor man's" replacement, just a texture, but it looks good in game with the regular vanilla system (with some decal tweaks) and thus very low cost in performance; of course with no compatibility issues. The decal tweaks help (even without the replacement textures) look a lot by improving the amount, distribution and duration of combat gore to a reasonable level.

 

Thats perfect, even if it only simulates 50% of EBT i am happy. I have head great succes with reducing load screen on death (my only CTD) by removing script heavy mods. Since i dont want to lose W&C, I can now happily remove EBT (dont notice blood effects too much in any case).

 

Kuldebar, you a wealth of knowledge, not only regarding this thread but many others. Thanks for all the hard work!

[Kuldebar]

It's amazing the stuff that goes unnoticed when you just play the game, lol!

Kuldebar, you a wealth of knowledge, not only regarding this thread but many others. Thanks for all the hard work!

You are far too kind, I just obsessively keep my ear to the ground for "inside" information and try various stuff out. I can experiment with Skyrim a lot more readily now that I have the tools on hand to do so (TES5Edit, Mod Organizer, STEP Forum discussions for example) but above all, I listen to what other people are saying, it helps me focus on what things to take heed of in a trust, but verify sort of approach.

[ShadowNirvana]

Is EBT a necessary master for STEP Core or STEP Extended patches? If so, how to get past this issue?

 

Also, Burn Freeze Shock Effects has the same wiki warning as Enhanced Blood Textures. Should one drop that mod also?

[redirishlord]

FWIW I have not had any CTD events related to EBT, but I don't run Frostfall any more (I often had CTD events using FF with RND and Hunterborn). I think script related CTD events are likely due to the volume of papyrus activity and aren't the fault of any one mod, but rather the excessive use of several by the modder (see above for my personal experience).

If anyone has definitive evidence of EBT being poorly executed and a primary driver of these events it would be great to see it peer reviewed here (not by me, I do not have the expertise, but I would love to read through the analysis/debate).

[Garfink]

FWIW I have not had any CTD events related to EBT, but I don't run Frostfall any more (I often had CTD events using FF with RND and Hunterborn). I think script related CTD events are likely due to the volume of papyrus activity and aren't the fault of any one mod, but rather the excessive use of several by the modder (see above for my personal experience).

If anyone has definitive evidence of EBT being poorly executed and a primary driver of these events it would be great to see it peer reviewed here (not by me, I do not have the expertise, but I would love to read through the analysis/debate).

 

Agree in entirety, I am sure it isn't EBT's fault as clearly there  are many users with no issues.  It would be awesome if there was a measurable way to quantify script load so we know what the script engine can handle.  ....  Then I wake up.  

 

In any case, played another 7 hours with not a single crash, seems to have fixed my reload from in game CTD as well, now I don't need to exit to main menu to reload games.

 

Now I can install more mods because of the freed up load order and risk CTD again!

 

 

Is EBT a necessary master for STEP Core or STEP Extended patches? If so, how to get past this issue?

 

Also, Burn Freeze Shock Effects has the same wiki warning as Enhanced Blood Textures. Should one drop that mod also?

 

 

BSE is similar and used to be a real NO NO before the memory patch, my game would freeze on every fire spell.  I am using it now with no problems, but I have uninstalled footprint, wet-cold and EBT to accommodate it.  I should probably uninstall BSE before wet-cold & footprint though, come to think of it.... o' well...  if it ain't broke don't fix it. 

 

 

Better Blood Splatters by Cristofano Varacolaci + some blood decal tweaks in the ini

 

No muss, no fuss. :)

 

My phear of script heavy mods has kept me away from EBT for a long long time....Papyrus can only do so much then it become poopyrus on your desktop. 

 

Installed it BBS does look better than vanilla, but isn't game altering like EBT unfortunately, I miss the blood splatters everywhere and the pooling blood and the squirting blood....  Poor man's EBT it certainly is.  Oh well.  Good to be frugal and not crash I guess.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Garfink

[Fereval]

Why not try a "no script" version of EBT by deactivating all the options in the MCM Menu ? Don't know if that shut down completly EBT's scripts but that can help if somone wants to keep some of the textures.

[fireundubh]

I uninstalled EBT, Footsteps, and Wet & Cold long ago. I miss them so, but the flood of Papyrus errors and significantly increased CTD frequency were too much to endure.

 

By the way, "injecting nearby actors" isn't a problem. The problem is scripts not properly cleaning up after themselves. I don't know how the above mods work, but I designed Master of Disguise to only dynamically attach scripts to valid NPCs when the player is near them (i.e., when the player needs them) and then to dynamically detach those scripts when the player is too far away, when the player is not in the same cell, or when the NPC detaches from the cell (i.e., when the player doesn't need them.) 

 

This reduces the amount of stuff that gets added to saves in the name of persistence. This also eliminated 100% of the "none object" errors that I had seen in older versions. But you have to architect your mod and scripts that make dynamically detaching scripts feasible. I remember seeing a ton of "none object" errors produced by the aforementioned mods, so maybe they don't clean up after themselves.