DynDOLOD 3.00 Alpha 182

[skinjack]

Where exactly does the textures folder from TexGen need to be in relationship to the esm or esp or other mods? I've never used DynDOLOD in MO2, so I'm not quite sure where to put it in the left pane. Is there some sort of rule I should be following, like after the last .esp or texture file that alters landscape, etc.? 

[sheson]

11 minutes ago, skinjack said:

Where exactly does the textures folder from TexGen need to be in relationship to the esm or esp or other mods? I've never used DynDOLOD in MO2, so I'm not quite sure where to put it in the left pane. Is there some sort of rule I should be following, like after the last .esp or texture file that alters landscape, etc.? 

Read ..\DynDOLOD\docs\DynDOLOD_Manual.html "Load/Overwrite Orders"

Or just pay attention to instructions in DynDOLOD_QuickStart.html for example, which just says that TexGen output should overwrite everything and then DynDOLOD output should overwrite everything (which implies that it overwrites TexGen)

 

[skinjack]

That's a little bit what I was alluding to. Sorry i did not explain my setup right now (which I am sure is wrong in some fashion). I'm still experimenting in MO2 to see what I can do with it, so my knowledge of its capacity is still noobish. All of the textures/meshes I have with no dependencies (USSEP, etc) I have AFTER the last true esp in the left pane, ie Modern Brawl Bug. Actually LOOT ordered your esp after this and that is how it is appearing on the LOOT list.

So that means basically I should put the DynDOLOD textures file at the end of my textures/meshes with no dependencies (which I have) followed by the Dyndolod.esp, correct? I already have the .esm as placed in the LOOT list.

I just wasn't sure if the esp needed to go after Modern Brawl Bug or after what follows for my meshes. Again, I apparently need to read better. Over-confidence after having used multiple versions of mod managers since Skyrim came out probably had something to do with the "I've done this before" voice in my head, and MO2 is a different animal.  I apologize if my list seems weird, its just the way I have it for now until I get more accustomed to MO2. 

 

EDIT: I may have to rethink where I am putting my meshes/textures. I have the texture output at 1392 according to my left pane, but I cannot manually change the right side DynDOLOD.esp  higher than 1132. I suppose now that I am a little bit more comfortable with MO2 I can just move them into my list with your files below it.

Edited August 10, 2021 by skinjack

[sheson]

37 minutes ago, skinjack said:

That's a little bit what I was alluding to. Sorry i did not explain my setup right now (which I am sure is wrong in some fashion). I'm still experimenting in MO2 to see what I can do with it, so my knowledge of its capacity is still noobish. All of the textures/meshes I have with no dependencies (USSEP, etc) I have AFTER the last true esp in the left pane, ie Modern Brawl Bug. Actually LOOT ordered your esp after this and that is how it is appearing on the LOOT list.

So that means basically I should put the DynDOLOD textures file at the end of my textures/meshes with no dependencies (which I have) followed by the Dyndolod.esp, correct? I already have the .esm as placed in the LOOT list.

I just wasn't sure if the esp needed to go after Modern Brawl Bug or after what follows for my meshes. Again, I apparently need to read better. Over-confidence after having used multiple versions of mod managers since Skyrim came out probably had something to do with the "I've done this before" voice in my head, and MO2 is a different animal.  I apologize if my list seems weird, its just the way I have it for now until I get more accustomed to MO2. 

 

EDIT: I may have to rethink where I am putting my meshes/textures. I have the texture output at 1392 according to my left pane, but I cannot manually change the right side DynDOLOD.esp  higher than 1132. I suppose now that I am a little bit more comfortable with MO2 I can just move them into my list with your files below it.

This thread is for the alpha test of DynDOLOD 3 alpha. The basic use of DynDOLOD is well explained in the manual, modding guides etc. for years. I do not provide modding or mod manager support that is outside the use of the tools or LOD generation. Users are expected to know the basics of modding like how overwrite orders work and how to use the use their mod manager. Refer to the mod manager guide/forum/discord how to use it.

Follow the instructions in the manual verbatim. The output of TexGen has to overwrite everything, then the output of DynDOLOD has to overwrite everything. That implies the DynDOLOD plugins should load after the plugins that were part of the load order when they were generated. Typically for the DynDOLOD.esm this means it is in the highest ESM slot possible. Other patchers run after the DynDOLOD patcher obviously should then load after the DynDOLOD.esp. Like Occlusion.esp generated by xLODGen for example.

[skinjack]

OK, I'll re-read the manual. Probably something I'm forgetting in there anyway.

[Greg]

1 hour ago, skinjack said:

That's a little bit what I was alluding to. Sorry i did not explain my setup right now (which I am sure is wrong in some fashion). I'm still experimenting in MO2 to see what I can do with it, so my knowledge of its capacity is still noobish. All of the textures/meshes I have with no dependencies (USSEP, etc) I have AFTER the last true esp in the left pane, ie Modern Brawl Bug. Actually LOOT ordered your esp after this and that is how it is appearing on the LOOT list.

So that means basically I should put the DynDOLOD textures file at the end of my textures/meshes with no dependencies (which I have) followed by the Dyndolod.esp, correct? I already have the .esm as placed in the LOOT list.

I just wasn't sure if the esp needed to go after Modern Brawl Bug or after what follows for my meshes. Again, I apparently need to read better. Over-confidence after having used multiple versions of mod managers since Skyrim came out probably had something to do with the "I've done this before" voice in my head, and MO2 is a different animal.  I apologize if my list seems weird, its just the way I have it for now until I get more accustomed to MO2. 

 

EDIT: I may have to rethink where I am putting my meshes/textures. I have the texture output at 1392 according to my left pane, but I cannot manually change the right side DynDOLOD.esp  higher than 1132. I suppose now that I am a little bit more comfortable with MO2 I can just move them into my list with your files below it.

You might review the Skyrim SE 1.0 Guide to see how STEP organizes DynDOLOD Resources in relation to other texture mods. This is off topic here so fee free to open a conversation in General Skyrim SE Discussion and Support if have questions regarding install order.

[DoubleYou]

8 hours ago, sheson said:

2. DynDOLOD does not create a grass cache. It uses the *.cgid files from the cache to generate grass LOD.

3. Grass LOD generation is possible if grass cache *.cgid file exist in the load order. Atm you/someone  could generate them with Skyrim Special Edition and then copy them over.
Next alpha version will not ignore the Grass=1 setting in the INI in case the game mode is TES5VR. Skyrim VR should be able to read and use the *.cgid files if they are renamed to *.gid and AllowLoadGrass is enabled in the Skyrim INI. You just have to make sure that every single vanilla *.gid in the data\grass folder is being overwritten as the vanilla *.gid are invalid for Skyrim VR/Skyrim Special Edition.

Similarly, would it be possible to load the grass cache *.cgid files in SSE by renaming them to *.gid and using bAllowLoadGrass in Skyrim.ini? Are these files in any way related to the bGenerateGrassDataFiles setting in Skyrim.ini?

[sheson]

4 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

Similarly, would it be possible to load the grass cache *.cgid files in SSE by renaming them to *.gid and using bAllowLoadGrass in Skyrim.ini? Are these files in any way related to the bGenerateGrassDataFiles setting in Skyrim.ini?

IIRC the *.gid Skyrim SE generates with bGenerateGrassDataFiles and the ones included in the vanilla BSA are in the Skyrim LE format. Loading the old gid format in Skyrim SE causes issues in the game.
The cgid files are in the gid format that Skyrim SE actually expects. The data is padded with unused byes to align. Given enough time and money I might eventually write a generator.

[DoubleYou]

I see. I tested this out last night and indeed renaming the *.cgid files and loading them via bAllowLoadGrass without NGIO works quite well. IIRC, this existed back to Oblivion days, so it would be an interesting option to explore, especially as regards performance. 

On another note, I was wondering how feasible an idea it would be to load the grass lod billboards using the btt tree loading system instead of lod4? One could theoretically load all tree lod into lod4 and put only grass lod in tree lod so that it could be independently adjusted via fTreeLoadDistance.

[sheson]

56 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

I see. I tested this out last night and indeed renaming the *.cgid files and loading them via bAllowLoadGrass without NGIO works quite well. IIRC, this existed back to Oblivion days, so it would be an interesting option to explore, especially as regards performance. 

On another note, I was wondering how feasible an idea it would be to load the grass lod billboards using the btt tree loading system instead of lod4? One could theoretically load all tree lod into lod4 and put only grass lod in tree lod so that it could be independently adjusted via fTreeLoadDistance.

You can just use NGIO with default grass INI settings, use onyl cache  and not extend anything. This avoids accidentally loading wrong format gid files. Unless of course it's about Skyrim VR.

The tree LOD system does not allow rotation around the x/y axis, so the grass LOD would not slope properly with the terrain.
The tree LOD system has a limit of 256 billboards on the atlas, which could be enough or not depending on grass mods / worldspace.

[samaelxx46]

Hi sheson,
I have a problem with the grass lod.
The color does not match between the load cells and the distant lod.
I set DynDOLODGrassMode = 2 and GrassLargeReference = 1.
In texgen if i play with grass: direct and ambient, i do not see any brightness diferrence in game after generation of texgen and dyndolod.
On the other hand it works for the lod of the trees.
How to fix this visible grass seam problem?
Could you please explain the difference between direct and ambient? how to properly set these two parameters?
Thank you.

[sheson]

2 hours ago, samaelxx46 said:

Hi sheson,
I have a problem with the grass lod.
The color does not match between the load cells and the distant lod.
I set DynDOLODGrassMode = 2 and GrassLargeReference = 1.
In texgen if i play with grass: direct and ambient, i do not see any brightness diferrence in game after generation of texgen and dyndolod.
On the other hand it works for the lod of the trees.
How to fix this visible grass seam problem?
Could you please explain the difference between direct and ambient? how to properly set these two parameters?
Thank you.

Read the second post. Especially the part about brightness or color being off in Settings and Updating. E.g. change the GrassBrightnessTop, GrassBrightnessBottom RGB factors.

Direct (sun) and ambient light intensity values in TexGen do not change the color. They are equivalent to the two light sources in NifSkope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shading#directional_lightig
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shading#Ambient_lighting

[DoubleYou]

5 hours ago, sheson said:

You can just use NGIO with default grass INI settings, use onyl cache  and not extend anything. This avoids accidentally loading wrong format gid files. Unless of course it's about Skyrim VR.

The tree LOD system does not allow rotation around the x/y axis, so the grass LOD would not slope properly with the terrain.
The tree LOD system has a limit of 256 billboards on the atlas, which could be enough or not depending on grass mods / worldspace.

I was considering that generating a grass cache might be beneficial to the other Bethesda games if possible.

I do intend to use NGIO, but with the extra settings off, and then tweaking the grass lod in lod4 to be dim enough to make the transition at uGridsToLoad as seamless as possible. 

On another note, I've been creating object lod32 for SSE map, which turns out really well since I can have a really detailed map without messing up my in-game lod. However, I noticed that, as I am sure is by design, if I add a rule to add back the tree lod to it, it causes an error. Would it be possible to have an option to allow tree lod on lod32? 

[sheson]

49 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

I was considering that generating a grass cache might be beneficial to the other Bethesda games if possible.

I do intend to use NGIO, but with the extra settings off, and then tweaking the grass lod in lod4 to be dim enough to make the transition at uGridsToLoad as seamless as possible. 

On another note, I've been creating object lod32 for SSE map, which turns out really well since I can have a really detailed map without messing up my in-game lod. However, I noticed that, as I am sure is by design, if I add a rule to add back the tree lod to it, it causes an error. Would it be possible to have an option to allow tree lod on lod32? 

You have to make sure that there that all old format gid files are being overwritten.

The game shows LOD Level 32 beyond LOD level 16 to the max render distance. How could having more detailed LOD in any LOD Level mess up the in-game LOD?

The LOD Level 32 column in DynDOLOD 32 Alpha is untested at the moment. Read the first post what log files to upload when reporting errors. I can not troubleshoot "an error" without information.

[DoubleYou]

2 hours ago, sheson said:

You have to make sure that there that all old format gid files are being overwritten.

The game shows LOD Level 32 beyond LOD level 16 to the max render distance. How could having more detailed LOD in any LOD Level mess up the in-game LOD?

The LOD Level 32 column in DynDOLOD 32 Alpha is untested at the moment. Read the first post what log files to upload when reporting errors. I can not troubleshoot "an error" without information.

It will be necessary to modify the Skyrim - Misc.bsa (or similar file for the other games) to remove the *.gid files then. I checked my grass cache, and while most of them are overwritten, not all of them would be. Easiest method would be to create a replacement Skyrim - Misc.bsa (or similar file for the other games) that doesn't contain the *.gid files.

As to LOD Level 32, I am specifically talking about Object LOD 32 as can only be generated by setting Level32=1 in DynDOLOD_SSE.ini. I do not believe these files are shown by the game except on the map when you set uLockedObjectMapLOD=32 in Skyrim.ini. Basically, what I have done is enabled Level32=1 in DynDOLOD_SSE.ini and applied rules to level 32 to make it as detailed as object LOD level 4. You might argue, why not just set uLockedObjectMapLOD=4? But there are bugs with using that. For instance, lod4 is where the grass lod is loaded, so it makes the map fps/performance tank. Also, it causes stuck lod setting uLockedObjectMapLOD lower than the highest object lod level from my testing.

Naturally, I like the option without the grass, but to get the best of both worlds I would like to be able to set a rule to enable tree lod on this fake object lod level 32.

I was unaware that the LOD Level 32 column was untested at the moment. I thought this was expected behavior. I reproduced and posted my logs here (I only chose chunk level 32 to save some digging hopefully):

Relevant logs

All logs